I was going to post this as a comment, but it was in an anarchism community, and I figured some sections of it might be unacceptable there. Hence, new post.
Here’s a guideline of how to interact with cops. There are more or less three modes, depending on your read of the situation. Cops are not always the enemy or the maniacal whole-job-is-making-evil thugs that Lemmy sometimes makes them out to be. It really is bad for people to get mugged or their cars broken into, and they’re the solution our society has come up with to minimize the amount of it that happens. It’s not always a bad thing.
If you find yourself talking to the cops, there are more or less three ways:
- They’re there to solve a real problem. Someone’s car got broken into, someone got beat up. Just talk with them. Tell them what you know, help them figure out the situation. In almost all of the US, their effect on the problem will be positive, and it’ll be a lot more positive if they have a good grasp of what happened. If, in your opinion, the person they’re trying to catch really did do something that warrants a law enforcement response, then give them a hand. Use your judgement as to whether that’s warranted of course, and your impression of the justice level in your local area, since it varies quite a lot in the US.
- They’re there for you. Shut the fuck up. Don’t say a goddamned word. It doesn’t even matter if you didn’t do it. Don’t explain. Shut the fuck up. Be polite, obey lawful orders, definitely don’t fight them or you’ll get a felony and might also get injured or worse, but tell them that if you’re suspected of a crime, then you’d like to talk to a lawyer, and you have nothing else to say. And then, shut the fuck up and cooperate. Maybe you want to go as far as “Were you shoplifting?” “What? No. That wasn’t me, man.” But any further explanation than that, just leave it alone. Definitely don’t make something up on the spot, to make yourself sound innocent, if you did do it. For the love of God, don’t do that.
- They’re there for someone who didn’t do anything wrong. The reason for this post is, anything and everything with ICE and immigration falls into this category. Some things with local cops will, also. Just be unhelpful and simple. No, I didn’t see anything. I don’t know. I’m not sure. Be vague. Don’t get creative, keep it simple, don’t refuse to give your ID or otherwise antagonize them or commit minor crimes of obstruction, but just do your best imitation of someone who just fell from the sky. “So you’ve NEVER MET your neighbor. Your neighbor across the hall.” “Nope.” “Are you sure?” “Yeah, I don’t know.” “I mean, she gave us your name, she said she’d talked to you.” “I don’t know, I don’t remember that.” Don’t embellish. Don’t explain why. Just calmly let the silence linger and the pressure build up, without adding extra words.
Like I said, everything with ICE or other immigration authorities falls into the third category. No exceptions. Everything. The same applies with any type of federal law enforcement, I suspect, for the next few years.
How much bootlicking and privilege do I have to have for these to work? If they come up to me and arrest me for existing, is that mean I did something wrong? What happens when they murder unarmed people for existing? Did they just not talk right?
Fuck this idiot never talk to cops about anything, learn your rights. Don’t ever fucking trust the fascist.
Remember kids cops are food not friends.
You just gotta keep yelling “AM I BEING DETAINED” while they keep telling you “Yes,” and then refuse to give your ID or get out of the car until they break your driver’s side window. That’ll show those stupid fascists who’s boss.
This is long but worth the watch. It is a lawyer and a police officer giving specific details on why you should never talk to the police.
Yeah, I’ve seen this before. It was also posted and discussed below. It covers scenario number 2 in quite a lot of detail, which I think is a really good thing and good advice, yes.
You’re right I somehow missed it in my skim of the comments.
Man this thread is full of people asking to get jerked around by the cops. “AM I bEiNg DetaIneD?!” Well, you definitely upped your chances.
Here’s a life lesson: don’t act like a fuckwad to anybody and your outcomes are likely to be better across the board.
Maybe you want to go as far as “Were you shoplifting?” “What? No. That wasn’t me, man.” … do your best imitation of someone who just fell from the sky. “So you’ve NEVER MET your neighbor. Your neighbor across the hall.” “Nope.” “Are you sure?” “Yeah, I don’t know.”
Wrong.
Don’t tell the cops “I don’t know” or “I didn’t see anything,” or anything of that ilk. Don’t try to plead innocence. Don’t try to use logic. It will only ever work against you, and it will never work in your favor. Always always always always.
Just tell them you exercise your right to be silent. Over and over again, if necessary. That is all you say. Be a broken record. There is no situation where you are actually obligated (in the US) to answer any type of questions for any type of law enforcement, at any time, for any reason, ever. That’s all you need to tell them. You don’t answer questions. You don’t answer why you don’t answer questions.
This is because you can also be prosecuted for lying to them, and their grounds for accusing you of lying can be pretty shaky but you still might get convicted. You can’t be prosecuted for saying nothing.
Note that this will not prevent them from lying to you, which is legal, and making spurious threats of arrest or similar to attempt to intimidate you into complying. Be aware that this is automatically bullshit. At worst the can hold you for up to 48 hours (-ish, state laws vary on that point somewhat) without charging you with anything and even if they do, you still don’t have to say anything to them.
If this happens, lawyer up immediately. You can sue them afterwards if it comes about that they violated any of your civil rights in the process.
In light of all of the above, I don’t deal with the police at all.
Name and if necessary, driver’s license. That’s it. That’s all I’m legally obligated to provide in my state, and even then only in specific circumstances. If they’re on my actual property they can pack sand; No warrant, interaction. I won’t talk to them, I won’t even answer the door. If they want to try to bust in illegally, what happens after that is on them.
I will further never, ever call the police for any reason. They simply can’t be trusted. If I have a problem with someone or something, I will solve it myself. The cops in my area have near as makes no difference to a 0% clearance rate for nuisance crimes, assault/battery, thefts, and burglaries anyway. Unless you need a report for insurance purposes it’s useless, and at that rate I’ll have my attorney call them on my behalf. They are not in the business of helping you. So don’t even expect that they will.
TL;DR: Don’t talk to the police.
“What day is it? IT’S SHUT THE FUCK UP FRIDAY!”
I am so happy to see this. I posted one of the videos below.
It is always Friday.
This is correct answer, never speak to the police. They can and will use anything you say and try to make you guilty of SOMETHING.
…And even if you are not the perpetrator, that doesn’t matter. The police are pressured to arrest somebody. At the end of the day it really doesn’t matter to them who it is, and the perp got a way while in the meantime you’re standing right here. It’s much easier to harass you.
Do you have warrants? Are you sure? Do you have parking tickets? Is your name similar to someone else they want for something else? Do they smell weed? Are you black? Etc., etc., etc.
It’s not worth it. Don’t interact.
And even if you are not the perpetrator, that doesn’t matter. The police are pressured to arrest somebody.
This part, I definitely know is wrong. Some cops do have a particular stick up their ass about liking to arrest people for marginal reasons. The majority of cops, in any given interaction, dislike arresting people, because it’s paperwork, and they get paid the same either way. They’re not looking to arrest some random person if they can’t find the actual perpetrator. With very rare and corrupt exceptions, it’ll wind up being a massive waste of resources when they have to be released, or go to trial and get off because there is literally 0 evidence, and if someone shows a consistent pattern of that, it’ll be a problem.
Is your name similar to someone else they want for something else?
I used to think that you lived in a part of the US where the cops are bad, and we mostly just have a difference of experience. That still might be true, but I more strongly suspect now that you’re basing this on not much more than your particular set of prejudice.
basing this on not much more than your particular set of prejudice.
Wow, just like the police! What a coincidence.
basing “police want to arrest randos for no reason” on your particular set of prejudices
Lol. Lmao, even.
I agree with this. In the US you can only be compelled to answer questions if you are given immunity, which will almost never happen.
Wrong.
Everyone thinks they have rights until there’s a gun in their face.
When the fascists knock on your door you do what you must to survive and never throw anyone else under the bus.
In that scenario, my people have an ancient and traditional saying:
It is on, son.
usa sounds like a nightmare
You don’t actually have the right to remain silent as pertains to other people’s crimes. You could be compelled to testify, if it comes to that, and in theory you could be prosecuted if you lie, although it’s very unlikely to happen.
There are situations where what you’re saying is accurate: Every single cop who might answer the call for service is the enemy, or you might get a really bad outcome for “snitching,” or simply stonewalling with mild hostility is better for some reason than “I don’t know her.” My advice was general advice for most of the US, not applicable to every situation someone might find themselves in.
You can be subpoenaed to testify in court. You cannot be compelled to talk to the police.
Correct. I was mostly responding to your use of “right to remain silent” when asked about your neighbors. It just doesn’t work that way. You could go with “I don’t want to tell you” or “I don’t have to tell you,” but if you had to pick one general answer to recommend, I’m a lot more comfortable going with “I don’t know” or “I don’t remember” instead of those options.
There is no US law requiring you to talk to cops. About crimes you might have committed or witnessed. You could be forced to testify in court but never to a police officer.
Completely correct. I was mostly just responding to the use of the phrase “right to remain silent” about someone else’s crimes. Using legal terminology wrongly with the cops is a bad idea.
This is false
Compelled to testify in court is very different from talking to the police at your door.
Don’t EVER talk to the police.
Not everyone has the privilege of being able to afford a lawyer and/or time off from work. There are plenty of jobs that won’t let you interview if you’ve been arrested, even without a conviction.
If the police want to make your life miserable, it’s very easy for them to do so with no consequences. Also, when you piss off a cop, they are probably going to take it out on the next person they interact with.
On the other hand, if you follow the advice posted, you’re not going to give up any of your rights.
Yeah. They have a lot of leeway in how they deal with you, which is why I don’t recommend “I don’t answer questions” or being needlessly dickish to them. Some things, you need to draw the line, because getting arrested because they’re pissed, and then released, is a hell of a lot better than saying some stuff which can get used later on to put you away on some real charges. But in general, there’s no reason to make it a painful interaction, because they can also make it a painful interaction for you, in turn.
This is true, although you have a constitutional right to a lawyer even if you have no money.
Either way, if they want to detain and question you, that’s arrest - You’re going to jail, you’ll need to get bail which is going to be somewhere between $100 and $20,000, probably, otherwise you’re not getting out of jail.
And nothing you say to a cop from the initial contact to the day you walk out a free person is going to help you. The best it can possibly do is not make anything worse, and that’s unlikely.
The reason you have to have a lawyer is that the lawyer is supposed to know what they’re allowed to ask you and what to do to get you out. (Some lawyers aren’t as good as others, but any honest lawyer knows these basics. - or they can ask their office.)
Now, there are simple things you can do like; be cool, polite, possibly de-escalate the situation with some empathy, but if they start asking you more than one or two questions, you need to forget everything that’s ever happened ever, immediatley. You do not remember. After the third question, just shut up and shrug.
You’re not going to talk your way out of it, and they’ll take any opportunity to take any sound you’ve uttered and turn it into some other charge against you - most people get accused of five to twenty charges for the same thing so the DA can look effective and make the total jail time seem as scary as possible.
If you gave them nothing, and they have nothing, you are in the best position possible.
This is true, although you have a constitutional right to a lawyer even if you have no money.
Legal aid is overworked and underpaid. At best you’ll get a tiny portion of the lawyer’s time, and at worst they’ll throw you under the bus so they can make a deal for another client who is in a worse situation.
They absolutely are overworked and underpaid, but they’re choosing to get paid less to help people with no money who are getting fucked over by the system. For this they get accused of being crooked and stupid and everyone has to masturbate in front of them and enough shit that you or I would never put up with. They are the single ray of hope or at least human support for people who are losing their freedom and often a lot more, and they should get more respect.
Making a deal to help another client will get them disbarred and anyone who knows of such a thing should file a bar complaint immedately.
The most common situation is the accused actually did the alleged thing, then admitted it, then decided they didn’t want to admit it after that and there is literally nothing the lawyer can do at that point. This is why it’s incredibly important to not say anything. “Talk to my lawyer”.
You sure watched that video fast.
And responded as though you didn’t watch it at all.
I guess that adds up. Cheers.
I won’t speak for the other person, but I’ve watched that video before, so I didn’t need to. It’s a really good one. If you haven’t, you should watch it.
You aren’t the first person to post that video.
While I agree with this in theory, being a pain in the ass right off the bat isn’t going to work well a lot of the time. Answer the questions, keep it simple and respectful, address them as officer or whatever, and get on with your day. I’ve gotten out of so much shit this way. Boring is good. If you are a pain in the ass you’re going to stick out and that increases your chances of being harassed.
So glad every time I see someone share this.
I used to think so after watching the video. I stumbled into watching bodycam videos on YT because they’re like reality tv but real. I now align more with OP after seeing how many of them think that asserting your rights means you’re a smartass who should be dealt with. My goal with police is to be forgotten, not to stand out.
Now, had I knowingly committed a crime, that might be very different. Fortunately, the part of my life when I had to fear police interactions (because I was committing crimes) is in the past. Not that I would invite them today. We all know some of them are sociopaths and I don’t like to gamble.
I think everyone should watch a bunch of bodycam videos on YT. It gives a really good picture of what the flavor of the interaction is going to be, what to expect, what to do and not do, and so on.
Also, never answer the question, “Do you know why I pulled you over?” with anything that sounds like an admission. They’re fishing and looking to have you confess to a traffic violation.
The honest answer is “No, I’m not sure why you pulled me over,” because it’s true. There are a million motivations they might have come up with to pull you over, and you’re neither psychic or telepathic.
There’s a really big problem with this guidance. You may be in category 2 (i.e. a suspect) and not know it. They may also retroactively place you in that category, and everything you said can now be incriminating evidence
This is a pretty valid point in general, I think. If you don’t have already a pretty firm idea that you are in scenario 1 or 3, it’s probably best to treat it as a scenario 2 until things get clarified.
Also, yes, the cops can lie to you. I don’t agree that they are always bad, since often they are lying in pursuit of solving an actual crime that in actual fact should be getting solved, but when they’re dealing with you, you need to recognize when it is an adversarial interaction, even if they are faking being friendly with you at the moment. This kind of thing is why I highly recommend people watching a lot of bodycam videos on YouTube at some point in their lives. You can sort of see the basic structure and some of the ways they tend to approach interactions, in cases where they’re trying to trick someone that they’re talking to.
sticking to “am i being detained” and “lawyer” works wonders got out a fucked situation with the first. Genuinely the biggest gang in the US, treat them as such
Do not talk to the police.
I had police called on me once. I was working for a homeowner while they were out of the country, and one of their neighbors called the police to report me being in the homeowners backyard.
I was watering their plants, by the way. But their neighbors might not have known or seen that since the backyard is behind the house and a fence.
Anyways, police showed up and took a few steps up the driveway to the side of the house where I was working and asked me if I was the homeowner. I politely said “No, I am not the homeowner.” The officer gave me a look, to which I elaborated “I work for the homeowner, they are currently on vacation in [country name], and they asked me to water their plants for them.” I was holding the water hose in my hand and the plants were wet on the side of the house he could see.
He was also polite, asked me for my ID which I presented, he took a picture of it on his phone and then took some notes. He asked me to hang out around the front of the home a bit because I think he may have been relaying information to dispatch, but then he came back and shook my hand and said “Thank you for being cooperative, I was on a call with the dispatch who told me the person who reported you said the homeowner was on vacation in [country name]. I don’t want to take any more of your time, but hope you have a nice day and I already let dispatch know if anyone else calls about it to let them know you work for the homeowner.” And that was that.
Be polite and respectful. Don’t lie or be untruthful. You might not like the police, but they are still humans, treat them like humans. Purposefully making their job harder will never, ever end well for you.
Every citizen can choose for themselves if they wish to remain silent, and if you choose to do so you must say specifically that you exercise your right to remain silent. If you have to speak to the police for whatever reason after you said you exercise your right to remain silent, you are legally obligated to say you will continue to exercise your right to remain silent if you choose to continue to do so.
I have had exactly this type of experience, of being calm and straight with the cops, and they clearly really appreciate it in exactly the way you described because so much of their day consists of people who are acting like maniacs or lying through their teeth.
The one part I would take some exception to is “don’t be untruthful.” If you’re guilty, then, I mean, definitely don’t lie to make yourself innocent, but there’s a big myth that cops like to promulgate that when you’re guilty then you just need to be honest and they’ll be able to help you out. This is wrong, wrong, wronger than wrong. Just ask for a lawyer.
But yes, being cordial with them while still protecting your rights will mean they’ll generally do what they can to help you out in turn, and make your interaction a lot more better, absolutely.
If you are guilty of a crime, then certainly being truthful and cooperative with police can lead the Judge to be more lenient with sentencing than if you had been a problem. It also can directly lead to you being treated less roughly (or “normally”) by police, and less additional charges ontop of your existing charge. Obviously it depends on the severity of the crime, but it is not entirely a myth. Judges usually have within their discretion a range of time for sentencing, and I have seen multiple times where a Judge takes the Defendant’s cooperation and truthfulness into account, giving the lowest possible sentencing.
My personal opinion is to just be truthful and own your actions. Be accountable. If you broke the law you broke the law, you know? Yes, a lawyer can help lower your sentence, and its really never advisable to not speak to a lawyer, but its just my opinion of “If you cannot do the time, then do not do the crime.” Yes, sometimes following the law can be a hassle, and yes there are laws I think are stupid and I do not agree with. But they are still the laws of the land and if I want to live here, then I am obligated to follow the law to the best of my ability.
THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVISE BY THE WAY
Be polite, be respectful. Kinda like bees. If you don’t mess with them, usually the bees aren’t going to mess with you. If you don’t give police a reason to interact with you, unless you were a witness to a crime or something they will usually leave you alone, where I live at least. I am over 30 and that is the only interaction with police I have ever had where I would consider myself as a suspect. Also, I feel obligated to mention that I am a Mexican American, and a legal citizen.
Yeah. They’re dangerous to interact with, because a part of their job is to fuck up people’s lives in certain circumstances. If you’re in the role of “the guy we’re trying to put in prison,” then they are absolutely your adversary, and you need to recognize that even if they’re pretending to be nice to you or seemingly being reasonable. But not every interaction involves them being the adversary, and except for individual ones who are pieces of shit (which does happen, just like with every other class of human being), they don’t need to be the enemy.
Oof you just got your identity stolen. Nice.
The third option is our German chancellor (Olaf Scholz). “I dont know where these Millions went.” “I don’t remember anything about that incident.” “I don’t recall sending or receiving these messages.” “That evidence? No I don’t remember this and I refuse to talk about it” If you ask any uncomfortable questions about corruption he just stays silent.
Or Senator Mitch McConnell.
“I do not recaaawwwwwwlllllll”
This is bad advice. In all cases, dont talk to them.
“Hey, you reported a home intrusion?”
“I wont say anything without a lawyer present.”
Yep, calling the cops is a good way to get murdered. Better not to call them
In most situations, Honestly just easier to file the report at the station.
Neighbor’s car got broken into. Called the cops and for some reason, THREE cops went door to door demanding home owners hand over video of their door cams?
I went to yell at my neighbor who apologized like crazy, saying he just asked them to file a report, not play Bad Boys action-hero.
“MaN thEsE PoLiCE nEveR soLvE AnyThiNg”
Calls the cops, they investigate the crime that was reported, trying to find the bad guy.
“MaN tHesE poLiCe anD tHeiR inVesTiGaTioNs, StuPiD CopS”
In the USA your advice is bad advice. You are in some situations obligated to answer questions. “Im not sure” and “I don’t know/recall” are perfectly valid answers
Those answers can be used to convict you. Don’t say anything!
Rule 1 : Don’t
Rule 2 : Am I being detained?
Rule 3 : I will not answer any questions without my lawyer present.
Be as advised, in the US, if you are driving your car, you are required to identify yourself to an officer, along with providing proof of registration and insurance. Remember, you can beat the ticket, but you can’t beat the ride.
- Resume consumption of your succulent Chinese meal
what does “can’t beat the ride” mean in this context?
Basically, if the police are going to grab you, it’s best not to resist. Exercise your rights in court, not on the pavement.
Take the ticket so you don’t get arrested is how I interpreted it.
Something for everyone: keep your license and registration/insurance in your sun visor, keep a state ID on you for ID purposes. Also keep your hands on the wheel until they are at the window. That and keeping the information in the sun visor ensure that your hands are in plain view the entire time. You don’t have to suddenly start moving and digging around in a dark compartment. Police officers are trained to keep their eyes on your hands and if they can’t see your hands they get nervous and that’s when bad police officers start pulling guns and shooting people. Sounds stupid but it’s what they’re trained to do. Following this simple and straightforward advice will immediately de-escalate and improve your interaction with anybody pulling you over. I’ve actually had officers mention it after a stop and thank me for keeping my hands in plain view etc. The vast majority are just trying to do their job, and this advice makes it easier for them, makes them less fearful, makes them less prone to do something stupid.
I actually got that advice in a very nice concealed carry class I went to. A large portion of the multi-day class went over interactions with law enforcements what to do what not to do etc.
This is incredibly solid advice. Whether you’re dealing with a perfectly reasonable police officer, or Shooty McSettlementByTheCity, it will be to your benefit to be cool with them and respect their desire to get through the interaction smoothly, and not have to be nervous about what you’re doing.
I can summarize three of my last four encounters with law enforcement thusly:
1: “Hey stay where you are” “Sure” (talks to me briefly, gets on his radio, verifies I’m not the guy, okay cool you’re free to go)
2 and 3: I actually was guilty of something minor, and the cop knew it, but because I was aboveboard with him and didn’t make bullshit when I could have, he went pretty much to the limit of his ability to not get me in trouble for it. THIS IS NOT TO SAY YOU SHOULD BE HONEST WITH THE COPS. Just don’t be a dick and make everyone’s day more difficult, is what I’m saying.
Also, be white. It helps a lot.
Good advice. Think about the situation and get a feel for what’s going on, instead of automatically trusting or hating cops. It really isn’t smart to treat real life like a meme.
It really isn’t. I’ve seen some bodycam videos of people who got themselves in a significant amount of trouble that they didn’t need to be in, because they were aggressively ignorantly hostile to cops who were just showing up for some straightforward reason and trying to do their jobs.
I’ve seen those videos too, and I don’t know what you meant by “it really isn’t” but I wouldn’t advise being aggressively ignorantly hostile to cops no matter what they’re doing. If you’re a victim of police abuse, they have all the power in that moment and being belligerent will not help you. It’s not a matter of principle, it’s a matter of surviving that situation so you can fight it in court where you’ll have a better (i.e. nonzero) chance.
Oh, no, I was agreeing with you, sorry. What I meant was “It really isn’t smart to treat real life like a meme.”
LOL sorry, lazy me didn’t hit the link button and see what it was about, even though I really like how well that lemmy feature works.
It’s all good, I think it’s on me. It would have been hard to interpret the first few words of my message as any way but hostile, I think.
