I wonder if this is gonna be like Waymo, where statistically speaking, the amount of cars that they had on the road, with how many crashes they had, it was deemed ineffective and dangerous, but as soon as they reduced the cars on the road they had less incidents because less odds. At this point, they probably continue to suck up subsidies and donar $ so they keep their little goofy business afloat. So what happens now? When It crashes into a school bus, who is held accountable? This is not a good idea. We need to tax the rich and corporations shouldn’t have so much power. We didn’t ask for this future. Anybody with a damn lick of sense knows that this is a stupid idea. Also, why? Like, just make more trains. America is so stupid. The fact that you just fight over cars versus walkable cities. I am actively trying to find a way out of here. These are horrific insanely stupid ideas. It’s like doing it the hard way because you’re too prideful to admit that you have a shitty infrastructure.I have seen Europe, I have experienced it, and it is far superior to the shitty infrastructure of the United States. I was born in America. I lived in America, but I do not identify with this way of life or culture. My head spins with just where people’s minds are at in this country. How little they know. It’s terrifying. If you’re out there, just know. It is better elsewhere and chase those goals. You’re not crazy. There’s a better world. Not perfect, but a better world out there. Leave if you want to leave, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
Good. No more freedom convoy MAGA base.
Both political parties are anti-union, anti-worker, and anti-American.
Not after the first snowfall, they won’t.
Great, just in time for the number of shipments of imports needing to be distributed across the US to plummet…
ahhh yes, before he was Gustavo Frein, he was the dude killed by a video game in this
Americans will do anything to avoid just using trains.
Trains help poor people too. We like to pretend we don’t have poor people. Makes them easier to ignore while pretending to be Christian.
Except that nearly all US rail is for freight. We hate PASSENGER trains. We freaking love freight rail.
But american freight trains are laughably bad too
Yes, but “we will avoid trains no matter what” is blatantly false. It’s terrible, but it is our main method of shipping freight from ports to inland cities.
Trains are great but they don’t typically run to your local warehouse…
They have, and they could again
Canals can be useful for this as well, Lowell MA used to have a huge industry all on waterfronts
Could but don’t.
They used to.
Because the warehouse was built on the tracks. Alas that infrastructure tie-in has mostly gone away, new facilities are built with proximity to cheap labor, land, and easy to consume + pollute natural resources.
Not much competition in railways. Like literally none.
Why not make automated trains with their own dedicated right of way?
But that would require investment in infrastructure…
Bet that semi trucks are more expensive due to road damage and congestion alone.
I’ve already commented on road damage, but yeah, trucking firms bear no costs for the congestion and other road hazards they bring with them. Society, as is so often the case, sucks up those externalities.
There’s definitely direct economic damage here too beyond just repairs and slowness. It’s sniffles business growth because the infrastructure is unreliable.
Sometimes I just like yo imagine how much fun the roads would be without trucks.
Yes, but that’s all subsidized by taxpayers, so it’s more expensive overall but cheaper for YOU.
Privatize gains, socialize losses. The CapitalistTM way!
Efficiency, pollution too (even when electric, because tires and break dust are a thing)
Something like 70% of transport-related particulate emissions (and microplastics) are from tire wear.
What you don’t get is that trucks last less and consume more, therefore it’s better for the robber barons.
*** everyone but the lobbyists liked that ***
They already are automated trains on freight only routes like mines.
Outside of mines or just in mines? I know that mines are becoming more automated but what about commercial routes.
It’s absurd to suggest running a railway to every warehouse in East Bumfuck, Missouri.
No one’s claiming that. Trucks can still handle the last mile just like they do it with container ships.
Im no logistics expert byt ship -> train -> semi sounds like a great infrastructure design especially now as the container is interchangeable between all of these mediums.
Oh. But a road is famously cheap.
The road already exists
Just one more road and the traffic will get better /s
Compared to building and maintaining a railway, yes, by orders of magnitude.
A road built and maintained by taxpayers is much cheaper (to a shipping company) than building, maintaining, and operating a railway. Making taxpayers responsible for the infrastructure you use is one way to make your business much more profitable.
Citation needed
A cursory search shows rail in rural areas is $2 million per mile and a highway is $4-10 million per mile.
Yeah but it’d be fucking insane to build a state highway to each and every destination in every hamlet, just like it would be for rail.
And it’s not just cost of initial construction, it’s also cost of maintenance. If the ground shifts slightly under the road, it’s a bump. If it shifts under a railway, it’s a derailment for the first train that finds it and a couple million dollars in recovery and repair, plus the downtime while that section is out of service. And that doesn’t even start to account for overhead like signal operation, whereas on a road you just use a stop sign.
I like trains more than the next guy, but you absolutely cannot just replace every road with a railway.
I think you’re missing the general point.
In the cases you’ve described, having automated semis would not be feasible. Automated cars already have a hard time in San Fran and AZ cities with smooth asphalt as it is.
The places where automated semis make the most sense, i.e. large, well maintained highways connecting large urban centres, can be better served with automated railways.
The engineering is much simpler, fewer degrees of freedom and a much more constrained problem space (and hence constrained solution space), for automated railways than highways. Creating a safer environment for all. Also not having to deal with semis as an individual driver.
Railways (funded through private investment): https://www.aar.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/AAR-Rail-Network-Map-2025-1.jpg.webp
Highways (publicly owned, operated, maintained): https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/images/nhs.pdf
There is some good coverage with railroads, but as you said not nearly extensive as the public road network. But I bet you the vast majority (above 60%) are along corridors with railways. However two big hurdles need to be overcome, greater investment in throughput capacity and the fact that trucks can go from ware house to ware house.
However both issues can be solved.
The places where automated semis make the most sense, i.e. large, well maintained highways connecting large urban centres, can be better served with automated railways.
On this I agree. For popular, well-defined routes, rail absolutely makes sense, not just for freight, but for passenger transport as well.
As of Thursday, the company’s self-driving tech has completed over 1,200 miles without a human in the truck.
That’s not an impressive number. That’s like 2 days’ worth of driving.
Yeah that’s about 2 and a half round-trips between Dallas and Houston, that’s…not a lot to be calling this thing ready to go and pulling out the safety drivers.
I wonder how these handle accidents, traffic stops, bad lane markings from road construction, mechanical failure, bad weather (heavy rain making it difficult/impossible to see lane markings), etc.
You’d think they would be keeping the safety drivers in place for at least 6+ months of regular long-haul drives and upwards of 100k miles to cover all bases.
You’d think that, but you’re talking about Texas, where corporate profit always wins over people’s safety and well-being.
It would be more interesting to know how many miles they completed with the safety driver in the vehicle.
That figure is without a human in the truck, not with a safety driver. I.E, they’ve done a bunch of testing beforehand.
Most rigs go at least 1,000,000 miles and that isn’t isn’t even end off life. You’ll be paying not much less than new for a rig that only has 100k, that’s practically brand new. These systems should have 100 million proven miles. These things weight 80,000lbs which can be very hazardous materials.
You should see the pile ups semis cause in low visibility. Even with really good lidar, I hesitant to say autonomous trucks can be safe running off independent systems on full mixed use roads.
We could add those systems to all roads to feed back to semis to know conditions and hazards miles before they reach them. We could build new smart roads for all autonomous vechilce to travel on separately.
Or we could just end the 100+ year old railroad cartel. Could move people and cargo with ease. But that isn’t profitable.
Its enough to prove the concept.
If it saves 1% of operating costs trucking businesses will be falling over themselves to implement it.
Nah no one’s going to bother with new tech for 1% - that’s crazy.
Great… I can’t wait to be hit by one of those on my motorcycle
I’d actually bet they’re safer than some tweaked out dude on his 20th hour at the wheel.
Same. Our government can’t even figure out a way for us to trigger a green light so I’m not confident that any self-driving vehicle regulations will consider us either.
Large neodymium magnet on the bottom will do it. Most are induction activated. They taught this in every motorcycle driving class I ever attended, along with the rules for legally running a red light.
No, it won’t. I invite you to get some large magnets and place them directly on the loop cuts in the street.
Well yeah, they have to move over the sensor loop. You can’t just place it in the center. It’s part of a process that happens as, you know, you pull up the the light. They are a little fancy.
This guy inductions.
That way you’ll also automatically collect all sorts of valuable metal treasures along the route. For free!!
At least the screws won’t collect in your tires! Lol
I vaguely remember a dystopian book that described that exact thing as the protagonist thinking he was looking at an odd flag on the front of the truck until he realized what it was. Can’t remember what the book was though 😔
What an incredibly infuriating waste of effort that would be so much better spent on trains, driverless or otherwise.
I disagree. There are many situations where a truck is better suited for transport than a train. The US already has a pretty large freight train network. I agree that there definitely should be more investment in rail as well, but there’s no reason for both not to exist at the same time.
There are, but “long haul routes” are definitely better for a train.
I don’t know why you’re being down voted; here’s an upvote for being sensible.
And how do they handle a person slowing down in front of them and hijacking them? At least a human might be able to navigate away aggressively but I think the programming would prevent as much harm as possible.
This new lawless future and we may need to raid corpo lords.
I can’t really imagine people wanting to hijack a truck that’s basically a giant camera and tracking system.
Bring lots of aluminum foil to wrap it in.
I dunno I can see it being done, go in first with a drone and blind the cameras one by one (not hard to rig it up with spray paint) then grab the goods, pick an isolated section of the route so you’re gone by the time anyone comes looking.
I for one predict a glorious era of road pirates.
I’d pay to see that movie.
I’ve seen plenty of youtube videos to know people are dumb enough to try this.
The resistance needs supplies!
Really?
Big box truck, no plate or other #s on the rear. Halloween masks for the crew.
I think that’d work, no problem.
If they unloaded the goods to another truck really fucking fast, maybe. Otherwise they’re just being recorded on top of a giant GPS beacon that’s alerting a system that something abnormal is happening so rally nearby law enforcement. It’d way easier to hold up a bookies, with a shotgun, Saul.
I think the programming would prevent as much harm as possible.
well, yeah… why wouldn’t you want a human to do the same thing??? you’re watching too many fast and furious movies.
Firstly, no one in an 18 wheeler loaded with cargo is “navigating away” from anyone desperate enough to attempt such a scheme. This entire idea is ludicrous, think about how slow and massive those trucks are.
Secondly, you don’t want an 18 wheeler loaded with cargo being driven aggressively. You’re just escalating the risk of killing yourself and everyone around you, for what, a truckload of insured corporate assets?
Honestly, sounds like the corporation’s problem. I’m more afraid for human lives than some product in the back. In a case like that it’d be better to not have a driver who could be killed.
Why do you think a morbidly obese truck driver would have any luck against blaggers with shotguns ?
Driverless does not meant unmonitored. Aside from numerous sensors, including door sensors, you really think if it suddenly slows to 0 mph at an unscheduled time/location that it’s not going to alert someone? “Hey, your freight just stopped transporting itself. Guess we should do nothing”. Aside from most of these being ready to be taken over by a remote driver if need be for liability and convenience reasons.
But, do they speak English?
Even in a hypothetical best-case scenario world, unless you have a driver on board any malfunction and you’re delayed 2-8 hours because there wasn’t a person in there to repair anything
How many issues on a truck is the driver able to fix themselves though?
A lot. Most of them do a lot of basic maintenance and break-fix work themselves.
Lol, no they dont. This is such reddit shit. Say something people will believe for the updoots because they have zero clue.
Your average driver is lucky to have a bat to check tire pressure. All the old guys that know how to work on their rigs are now too old to do it, or have enough money to just call the roadside desiel mechanic. 90% of drivers don’t own their rig, don’t give a shit, and are taught to just call the company to send a mechanic.
Yeah, I’m a driver, and I replace lights and fuses, fill up tires and fluids, change wipers, and that’s it.
Anything else wrong, it’s mechanic time.
Nailed it. If you don’t, you’re stuck waiting on service to replace those menial things for you, putting a 2 to 8hr dent in your workday, delaying all of your schedules. Source: operate a small trucking company.
Terrifying.
I wonder how much our car insurance will go up due to this.
I get that you’re scared about multi ton vehicles running without a human. But self driving can and actually be safer than human drivers sometimes. Yes, self driving vehicles can cause devistating accidents in situations where a human driver would have handled the situation much better. Sometimes they can just bug out, which seems particularly dangerous, but we also need to consider who they’re replacing: Humans. Humans get tired, Humans text & drive, Humans blink, Humans Yawn, Humans do drugs, Humans sometimes just don’t pay attention. Because machines don’t have any of these factors, they can statistically be much safer, of course assuming the technology is ripe enough and thoroughly tested before it’s used.
Also assuming those human errors don’t bring them into contact with a driverless truck hurtling along at 70 mph.
Lot lizard economy in shambles.
