Oh noooo, that thing we warned people about when it came out is being misused in exactly the way we warned people it would be misused.
Oh nooooo.
I’m tired grandpa. Too damn many stupid people in this world.
yeah, 100%, and there is no satisfaction in being proven right for this shit, the vindication is absolutely hollow. It sucks for everyone.
world
The US. The rest of us don’t have an ICE problem nor an obsession with this kind of shit.
Edit: Americans really don’t like their actions and responsibility handed back to them do they? God they’re getting fucking tiring.
That is simply not true.
Here in the EU we have chat control trying to be forced through every year for mass surveillance and targeting like Spain targeting catalan independence movements.
Palantir is starting to expand into the EU and american fash-tech companies have been lobbying hard and giving money to fascist parties across the EU. Musk gave unprescidented money of AfD fascists, for example.
UK has been getting more and more fascist for years, they have had mass surveillance for years and have been arresting people for simply attending zoom meetings supporting a country being killed off en-masse. Palantir literally just landed a £240 million deal with the UK government
We don’t have an ICE problem yet. Neither did america 10 years ago. It is being pushed HARD here to create an ICE problem.
Yes, it’s simply true.
They’re trying, as you point out. They’re not there yet.
Besides which, the use of the ‘world’ in place of the ‘US’ sterilises where the responsibility lies.
feels like rest of the world, including Europe, is like “can we slip in a couple of ours while Trump is doing all these insane bat shit crazy stuff and distracting people”
Every time I thought the US was stupid for doing a thing, the rest of the world followed with the same bullshit a few years later. Some sooner, some later. The US is not more stupid, they’re trendsetters.
Oh look another smart technology I didn’t adopt for the exact reason being talked about. You can’t trust big tech to not collaborate with whoever it’s the most profitable to collaborate with.
It’s not really a trust thing. They are companies, not people. The top decision makers have a fubuciary responsibility to do whatever makes money. They can, and often do, get sued if they don’t. So you can expect them to sell you out. It’s literally thier purpose for existing.
- fiduciary
You’re right, of course, but I really enjoyed “fubuciary”. It’s a deliblicious misplomuncitation.
I can’t argue with that.
I really think you should try. This us the Internet after all!
They are companies run by right wing shitbags. How many genocides were conducted on Facebook?
But I thought the courts decided that companies are people. :|
Only when it is good for “business”
You can’t trust big tech to not collaberate with, big tech either. You don’t want them with your information, even if it’s not readily apparent how it could hurt you. Before you know it you could be in a fascist dictatorship and wondering how you got there, this is part of the reason. Or would be in that completely hypothetical situation that in no way mirrors our own situation with our dear most intelligent and not al all dickish supreme leader.
Have considered a plain old doorbel and a peep hole on the door?
Low tech, cheap, cheap to install, lasts a lifetime.
Heck, if safety is the concern, install a periscope. Yes, mirrora inside a tube, to get to see, from a distance, who is at the door.
You want footage? Photos?
Install a local camera. Like one of those that are setup by biologists to film animals in the wild. Triggered by motion sensing. Or talk with someone technically inclined and install a local system.
I’ve disconnected the doorbell at every place I’ve lived in the last 10 years. If I’m expecting you I’ll be waiting and opening the door for you, everyone else can leave a message or find a different way to contact me
Absolutely this. Not many people understand this, especially not my gen (x) or older. Here they’re all pavlov’ed to open the door when it rings or answer the phone. I never do that.
Fed ex and UPS with sign for packages.
Or just use one of the hundreds of other brands that provide smart doorbells.
Honest question: what is the reason to have a doorbell of this kind?
Tells you when a package arrived and when the neighbor stole it off your porch. Tells you someone rang the bell when not home and lets you remotely yell ant the door to door sales people.
I mean they’re useful, but I sure wouldn’t ever trust one connected to any sort of cloud.
I do have a UniFi door cam that records to a local hard drive. I like it. Ties in with my other cameras to watch my vehicle in my driveway.
If you can see it’s a salesperson you can ignore them but answer if it’s the mailman/UPS. Get notified that a package was dropped off… or that shortly thereafter some rando walks up to said package.
Think of it as a door-peephole-at-range.
Many.
If you get deliveries and they’re mishandled, you have a recording of it.
If someone comes to your door when you’re not home, you can talk to them.
You can also set up local AI alerts (AI here is mostly used for facial recognition) e.g. to alert you if your MIL comes around uninvited, or if your kids sneak out at 2am, and so on.
Once you begin appreciating a home CCTV camera setup (fully local mind you), you’ll see the benefit of having your doorbell video-ed up as well.
You can also set up local AI alerts (AI here is mostly used for facial recognition) e.g. to alert you if your MIL comes around uninvited, or if your kids sneak out at 2am, and so on.
That sounds awful. I’d rather just not, and avoid that mindset altogether.
Do tell, which part of that sounds awful?
The idea of going back to a blind simple lock protecting my house, pets, and stuff is crazy to me - smart CCTV and an internet connected alarm system are so much better, plus there’s no “monitoring” cost like some folks pay. $40 so you can call the cops for me? No.
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In addition to “normal” uses, my kids got into the habit of leaving me messages on the camera when I’m in the office and they are leaving for school. I grew to love these messages.
Using Eufy with local storage. Don’t know whether anything gets stored to the cloud, but I guess data still passes through Eufy servers when I view the videos.
- Not getting off the sofa. Video doorbell pops up on my watch, no matter where I happen to be, so I can immediately decide whether it can interrupt what I’m doing.
- Shut the hell up. Sometimes I turn off the chimes so I’m not bothered by yet another door to door sales drone. But I still have my watch in case whoever is at the door is legitimate
- Intercom. My kid sometimes want to tell me something without coming inside
- History. Yes, sometimes I want to scroll back through all motion trigger s in front of my door
- Wildlife. Minor feature but it is occasionally fascinating to see what animals amble in front of my door. I’m urban so it’s limited but we have turkeys and coyotes
How else can you have the pleasure of telling Jehovah’s Witnesses to go away when you’re not at home?
I was waiting for this reply!
I love those guys! Trolling them always makes my day. Asking if they are willing to help clean the house never fails to get them off my door.
What if they agree to clean if you just listen to them?
Never happened and I seriously doubt it ever will. But! I have a couple of maid outfits laying around if it ever does. I’ll listen if they comply with my request.
I like to know when a package arrives, and when someone has stolen it.
Doorbell cams are just too convenient. You already have power there. There’s footage and audio.
Of course, I’m technically inclined…
I’m more concerned about safety on my property than privacy. I use Wyze Cams. I’m fine with it.
You can have both. I have a 360 camera set up around my house that records to a local dvr. I can remote into it when I’m not home and I’m not supporting ghoulish companies like google or Amazon.
Which camera and software? I self-host some stuff, but there is a “too complex” point I sometimes reach.
The cameras I inherited from the previous owner. They’re fairly low quality analog cameras but they get the job done. They had a Night Owl Brand system but I replaced it with a reolink dvr I have on a vlan so it’s separate from the rest of my network. When I have more time I’ll probably switch over to frigate though. That’ll likely come with me buying some higher quality cameras that are digital.
Thanks, I’ll look into those. I have a Wyze system without cloud features, but I’m sure privacy isn’t perfect.
You can have both if you have the know how and time to do so. I’d rather just pay $60 a year and under $100 for the cameras. How does Wyze support Google and Amazon? I’m genuinely asking.
My bad, I mixed up wyze with nest, which google owns. Amazon owns blink and ring. I do know wyze was founded by former Amazon employees, which is definitely not the same as their being controlled or supported by Amazon. That said, you may want to read up on some of their security breaches, which have happened multiple times.
I’m aware. I just don’t care that some random person could see my driveway momentarily. If it kept happening, I would cancel.
It’s not just a random person, you’re opening yourself up to the government subpoenaing wyze and collecting information about you without your knowledge or consent. In a normal world with a responsible government that wouldn’t be a huge deal provided you’re not doing anything seriously wrong, but that ship has sailed as of late. Don’t let them incriminate you with a fishing expedition for convenience
oh wow that’s crazy. Why would they do that though? What does a fishing expedition mean?
You might want to consider a different brand:
“So violated”: Wyze cameras leak footage to strangers for 2nd time in 5 months
I saw that when it happened. I’m not really bothered by the fact that a random person somewhere may have seen my driveway. If it kept happening, sure. I don’t have the wherewithal and time to set up a camera on a server, and in this day and age I feel like some sort of security camera is necessary. There’s a serious case for privacy, but not all of us have the capability or concern that the echo-chamber on Lemmy does about immaculate privacy.
You’ll get downvoted for having this opinion here but it’s a real take. Everyone has their own level of privacy they’re okay with and yours is a bit lower than the average user here.
If you’re okay with the potential risk, then that is your own choice, no one is forcing you.
Thank you for understanding that. This platform assumes the whole world functions as they do and has no understanding for people who either just don’t care or lack ability.
Can we all agree to print out flyers of this to share around with neighbors and our communities? People ARE under educated. It starts with us educating because the oligarchs wont
I doubt that anyone who has a ring camera, alexa and anything like that will care. Maybe people who think about getting one will, but a random flyer?
I care. I have Ring because it was the fastest way to get cameras on my property after trouble with neighbors. I found out how liberal they are with user data and handing it over to law enforcement but I couldn’t justify the expense in upgrading. For me this isn’t a bridge too far in a moral sense but more like a powerful reminder I’ve been lax in my responsibility. I’m pricing out some Reolink cameras I can host locally at home and put on a private subnet I can just VPN into. I’ll have to buy the kit piecemeal because I don’t have a lot of money to toss around but I am firmly committed to getting off Ring cameras in light of this news.
this is great news for my leftist in-laws who decided to get ring cameras out of the convenience they offered.
I did warn them that this would happen, but like most people, “that would never happen!”
Ring is owned by Amazon, so it makes sense. You can’t really trust any company fully, but Anker and Reolink are OK for now
Reolink
Any cameras that can operate entirely offline are good. Dahua and Hikvision are good too. Look for cameras with RTSP and ONVIF support. ONVIF is a standardized API for interacting with cameras and can handle things like pan/tilt/zoom, sending events from the camera to the NVR (eg motion detection), and a bunch of other things.
I use Blue Iris as my NVR, which is usually regarded as the best, but there’s other good software too (like Frigate), and hardware solutions too.
Just follow best practices - keep them isolated on a separate VLAN with no internet access. If you want remote access to your NVR, use a VPN like Tailscale.
Though, on the other hand, having the video saved offsite is useful because then anyone with physical access to your home can’t get rid of the video showing they’re there.
This is not an argument in favour of using cloud services, because that gives access to your video to anyone the company deems should have access (or sometimes individual workers who either have access as part of their job or gain access because businesses suck at security). It’s in response to you saying isolate the cameras from the internet entirely; there is a good reason to have them connected (though you could have a PC handle that with a connection to two networks and no physical or software bridge between the two, just take video from one, upload (encrypted) to server on other).
Though, on the other hand, having the video saved offsite is useful because then anyone with physical access to your home can’t get rid of the video showing they’re there.
I have Blue Iris configured to send all alert videos to one of my storage VPSes via SFTP. As soon as someone is detected outside, the video clip is sent offsite.
The server and the PoE switch that powers the cameras are also on a UPS, which helps if the intruder tries to shut off the power at the main breaker (which, here in California, always needs to be located outside).
It’s in response to you saying isolate the cameras from the internet entirely
The cameras themselves should always be isolated. No internet access for the cameras at all. Your NVR can have network access, and is what would handle uploading the videos to internet storage somewhere.
Anker owns Eufy right? The company that had all their cameras recording to a publicly accessible cloud storage?
Yeah not trusting them either.
My eufys are supposed to be local only. Shit I hope so… That’s why I bought them in the first place
Uh oh, you need to look into that right away. Most of the camera brands we’re talking about CAN be run local, by which we mean you can sever their internet connection with firewall rules and they’ll still operate. You have to do that though. They’ll almost all connect to the internet if allowed to.
HKSV does not get sent to ICE.
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Don’t buy anything from Amazon.
Tl;dr surveillance equipment working perfectly, used for dystopian surveillance. Major shocker.
Even better, getting the general public to pay to install and power them
This really highlights how important it is for people to understand what they’re opting into with smart devices. Transparency and informed choice matter more than ever.
the contracts/terms/etc don’t even matter… they can change them at any time, without prior notice. stop buying stuff, plain and simple.
Here’s an archive link in case anyone else refuses to give Substack views due to their affinity for Nazis: https://archive.is/ns4Yq
I remember last year when there was a trend of AI generated videos that depicted animals or people doing ridiculous and crazy things on doorbell cameras. Everyone was surprised at how realistic they looked but never questioned why there was enough training data of doorbell cameras to make them in the first place.
Not that relevant, but it makes it pretty clear how “private” this data was in the first place.
To be fair, a LOT of people voluntarily post doorbell videos on public sites like Facebook, X, Next Door etc. plenty for AI to scrape without even touching “private” brands.
Also, even this is vastly overstating how difficult that it would be.
You don’t need to train an entire network to make doorbell camera videos/pictures. There are techniques (like IP Adapters) that can take a single photo during inference and copy the style onto any other generated work. With applications like ComfyUI, this is a matter of dropping a node onto the generation graph and choosing a photo (or several photos), 3-4 clicks.
I enjoy having cameras on my house to see what’s going on in the neighborhood. It has come in handy at least once when my neighbor’s truck was stolen in broad daylight.
They are ring cameras because two were installed already when I moved in. What should I switch to? I just really want motion alerts and proof when something bad happens.
Unifi Ubiquiti products are one of the best option for completely local data hosting and camera services with really good “ai” detections all run locally, but they aren’t that cheap and you’ll need to buy one of their Unifi protect capable routers to get started, which is gonna be like $300 by itself.
Edit: Looks like they have a standalone recorder with a 3.5 inch drive bay but it’s still $200, and also most of their cameras are Ethernet. They do have a couple wireless options but not many.
Offers all the features Google/Amazon do, but without the subscriptions.
Plus they joined the open home foundation, so they’re unlikely to enshitify.
unlikely to enshitify.
That might be some wishful thinking. I tried getting some Reolink cameras a neighbor decided to buy on his own, to work with Blue Iris the other day, there was no way to configure them without installing their shitty app. All they have to do is just like every other not-shitty camera, enable DHCP, RTSP and ONVIF by default and then fuck off. But that’s not happening.
I told him to send them back, I wasn’t going to deal with them.
I have a Reolink setup that’s entirely air-gapped. No app required, just configure everything through the NVR unit.
Yeah initial setup requires their app (once).
But you can use their app without creating an account, which is such a breath of fresh air compared to everyone else.
Initial setup with Reolink is hit or miss. You’re right that those settings are off by default, which sucks. The better cameras host their own WebUI with which you can login and make changes with no app required, but the cheaper ones cut that corner and need the app. With that said, yes it is an initial hoop you might have to jump through, but once done and isolated you’ll never have to deal with it again. It’s a worthy trade off for the affordability and featureset IMO, but of course it could always be better.
Except they’re not all that affordable for the features. Not many that are POE, and their MP/optizoom compared to cameras half their price isn’t great. I can get Amcrest or Vikylin for less, and have everything that Reolink doesn’t out of the box. You also have to be careful with them that you don’t get Reolink NVR-locked cameras.
I’ve heard Reolink touted a lot and so far I’m not seeing the advantage.
I got a doorbell camera with full Home Assistant support and a 180 fisheye camera for around $100 each (don’t remember the exact price). I could use the built in recording until i got my NVR setup and it scaled with me. I thought they were great value.
Now, if you want just a bunch of standard cameras to cover your house with, maybe those other options are better, I’ll save your post and take a look if I’m ever in the market. I’m not a camera expert, just a tech/home auto enthusiast so they work for what I want.
Is there some really good open source and local cameras that people are using? Because many people default to ring.
I am looking at using Eufy, no subscription. Unsure of potential of it joining the darkside.
Edit: China-owned, so it’s a pick-your-poison kind of deal.
Eufy is a sub-brand of Anker, for those unaware.
You can connect Eufy cameras to your NAS (RTSP) if you want to completely avoid sending the recording to the cloud, or only stored on the MicroSD card.
Not sure if it is open source, but I switched to ReoLink a while back and have been very happy with it. Good Home Assistant integration, no subscription, and everything can be local (store video clips to an onboard SD Card).
You can just use analog security cameras and a DVR of your choosing. Don’t let the word analog fool you, the cameras are available in up to 4K resolution. Since the video is recorded to the DVR and not some random company’s server it is safe. It requires a little more setup and know-how but it is by no means difficult. Check the surveillance section on B&H’s website. There are tons of options.
I use ReoLink cameras blocked from the Internet. Locally, the app is p2p and works fine. For remote viewing, I have the rtmp proxied through my home server.
Idk about FOSS but unifi is all locally hosted!
Ditch your internet connected shit and boycott these companies
As far as I can tell it’s still voluntary. This is their policy. It sounds like if you choose to share photos or video with public safety organizations, that now Flock and hence ICE can access it.
That all said, fuck Flock and I certainly don’t want anything I share (which I never have) to contribute to the profits of a private surveillance company. The solution here appears to be share nothing with public safety at all ever so that contract is worth nothing.
Nice of them to completely undermine what “public safety” means for the 326,774,980th time.
inaccessible image of text
Do commenters know they can copy text instead of break web accessibility?
From the article
The partnership, announced in October 2025, integrates Ring’s Community Requests feature directly into Flock’s law-enforcement platforms, FlockOS and Flock Nova, allowing police departments to request Ring camera footage through Ring’s Neighbors app.
Ring Community Requests feature
Community Requests
What is Community Requests?
Community Requests is a privacy-protected service that enables public safety agencies to put out public requests for help and efficiently and securely collect and manage digital evidence. Public safety agencies can post a request in the Neighbors feed asking community members within a specific area to share Ring video footage or information that may help their investigation. Videos customers choose to share in response to Community Requests go directly to Axon Evidence, a secure evidence management system where they can be verified for authenticity and integrity. This also creates a complete audit trail of how and when public safety agencies collect information.
Participation is always voluntary, and public safety agencies can only see what you choose to share.
The owner chooses what to share in response to a request. Just like IRL when the police knock on an owner’s door to request information.
The owner chooses what to share in response to a request. Just like IRL when the police knock on an owner’s door to request information.
Yes, through this program you are technically correct that the user has to press a button to send the video to law enforcement through this specific program.
This implies that the user has the ability to refuse to send the video to law enforcement, but that is not true.
The videos are stored on Flock/Amazon’s servers and that means that the police can, via a subpoena or court order, access the footage or real-time video from any device or storage that the business can access. You have zero say in this and cannot opt out, the case law on requesting ‘business records’ is long settled as is the idea that digital files are considered ‘business records’.
In addition, this program does not preclude Flock/Amazon from voluntarily providing access to anybody or any group that asks/pays. The data is theirs, not yours.
This program is whitewashing the creation of a nation-wide real-time video surveillance network, paid for by you or via your tax dollars.
Do commenters know they can copy text instead of break web accessibility?
Broken as intended on the Ring website. Couldn’t copy/paste text. Would’ve forced the issue were I on desktop at the time.
Looks like you didn’t read the whole article.
I wonder how they define “Public safety agencies” since other programs refer to “Justice and Public Safety agencies”. Is this difference an oversight or is something being excluded?
It doesn’t matter, nobody would have a cause of action to challenge their interpretation if they decided that it meant any HOA or self-declared neighborhood watch.
In the end they are giving the data that they own to who they choose. The fact that it came from a device that you chose to bolt on the side of your house doesn’t mean anything in this transaction. The data instantly becomes theirs by virtue of the TOS (that you read, right?) that you agreed to when you signed up for the service and you have no say in what someone else does with their data.
These kinds of programs are just whitewashing, it makes it look like there are significant barriers in place to prevent your data from being used to enable a nationwide real-time surveillance network. There are not.
Flock could start charging a subscription fee for access to their video feeds tomorrow and it would be within their rights as owners of that data. The reason that they create these ‘programs’ is because it creates the impression that the user has control of ‘their’ data.
