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I went to the US in 2024 and it was outrageous, every card terminal asked for it
I was under the impression it was just for sit down meals and not stuff like Starbucks or non food related things
It is just for sit down meals and personal service. If someone is handling your car or your luggage or delivering food to your house, or cutting your hair that’s personal service.
The kiosks ask because they can blame the software and get away with it.
What you are describing is a major contributor to tip fatigue. Everything is asking for a tip, meanwhile actual tipped employees are still making $2 an hour. It’s out of control.
Hold up, you’re missing some nuance and it’s gonna make Europeans in here believe it’s true. In the US, any job can collect tips, it’s literally free extra money for no extra work so that’s why you see the tip option everywhere. That said, not all positions which collect tips get the service industry $2 minimum wage.
Most positions such as barista, hair stylist, etc get paid minimum wage plus they get whatever tips you give pay them. These positions typically get minimum wage because, despite there being a tip option, most people don’t tip significantly (hair stylist might depending on the type, but their base fees are already very high). Think of these as your $1 tip category, it’s people who you aren’t socially obligated to tip, don’t expect a tip, get paid at least minimum wage regardless of your tip, and contribute to tip fatigue.
The other tip group are full tip positions, such as waiter or bartender. These positions get $2 an hour unless they fail to get enough tips on average to meet the $7 minimum wage. Realistically, if they aren’t getting at least $7 minimum in tips then they are going to leave or get fired long term. These positions you are socially obligated to tip and they expect a tip. Strangely enough, some of the biggest proponents for this tipping position are the people that work in this field, career waiters and bartenders, because despite the very low potential income it also has a fairly high potential income for a low skill job depending on a lot of different factors. This is your percentage tip category.
The $1 tip category won’t go away, no matter how annoying it is, because it’s literally free money and no one expects you to do it (and if they do feel free to laugh in their face and never give them business again). The % tip category also probably won’t go away because it allows the business to shift costs to the customer and the people in the career support it.
You might wonder why people in the % tip category would support it, it’s because it’s a low technical skill job (hard work only), a lot of the tips are tax free, people who don’t like it leave the career, and it often attracts certain types of people (perhaps neurodivergent is the right word, but I really mean the type of people who don’t want a 9-5 Mon-Fri job).
Yes, but you can’t just ask someone “Do you make minimum wage? I need to know so I can decide how much to tip.”
I don’t know how much is normal to tip at some places. At restaurants, 20% is standard, ±5% depending on quality of service.
But at a coffee shop or a hairdresser or anywhere else like that, when the prompt for a tip comes up, I’d feel guilty to put anything lower than 20% because that’s how I’m programmed to feel about tipping. It would feel rude to press “no tip” or just $1 or just 5%. But also, cognitively I know 20% is too much for those roles because they already make at least minimum wage. But asking “what’s the normal amount to tip” seems rude too.
So I usually end up overtipping, even when it puts a strain on my finances. And that moves the overton window and begins to ingrain the obligation into cultural expectations. And that’s precisely what the vendors want to happen. They want you to feel guilty so you tip too much, so that it becomes normal to tip too much and people have the option of “no tip” gradually taken away from them.
That’s why in Europe when you use those american POS machines, the staff will click “no tip” for you before even handing you the machine. One, because they don’t want to guilt you into tipping, and two because they don’t want tipping culture to sneak into their societies. Because if it does, not only will it become a social obligation that no one wants, but it could also potentially give employers permission down the line to start paying less, the way they do in the US.
European wait staff like being payed a living wage without relying on tips. And you can feel the difference. They’re not nearly as stressed out as servers in the US, and the interactions feel more genuine because they don’t need to kowtow or be obsequious.
When it comes to % tips, back in the day the base number was 15%, I personally feel like that isn’t enough today. I start with 20% and then deduct for poor service (EDIT: it takes some pretty poor service for me to deduct at all, I would say 95% of the time I leave a 20% tip), I never leave zero tip, but I will leave a bad tip, and if I keep having bad service I just won’t come back. I would say my floor for a % tip is 10%. If service is so bad that I wouldn’t leave even that, then I have and will stand up and leave early. This is the kind of situation where I ordered a soda, 30 minutes passed, and the waiter never came back. Hey, I’m out, here is $5 for the soda and I’m probably never coming back here.
As to when I % tip, my personal rule is that it’s only for seated service which I qualify as the following: Someone seats me, someone comes to the table and takes my order, someone comes to the table to refill drinks and bring my food, and someone comes to clean the table when I leave. If any of these is not happening then I probably am not going to % tip. Did I have to order from a counter, did I have to go get my food, did I have to fill my own drink, did I have to dispose of the waste myself? There are certainly exceptions to this rationale, but I would say 90% of the time it works.
Some area for nuance is fair. If I sat myself, ordered from a counter but a lady brought it out to me, and she filled up my drink, but I threw the tray contents away I might leave her a few bucks if I have cash, but won’t feel like I have to. Another good rule is that if you have to pay before the service is completed then I’m not tipping 99% of the time.
hairdresser or anywhere else like that, when the prompt for a tip comes up,
Hairdressers are a bit special and depend on the type. If you’re a white man going for a 15 min buzz cut and paid $20, no tip. If you are a black woman with 2 feet of hand braided hair and you are getting your hair done every 3 weeks (unbraid, cut, wash, dry, maybe color?, condition, rebraid), that hair styling is like 4+ hours of work, their fee is probably $300+ and you will probably tip them $50+ easily.
the staff will click “no tip” for you before even handing you the machine.
Hehehehe, in the US sometimes those fuckers will push the 25% before handing it to you. I get feeling bad, but it’s important to set rules for what you think is fair and then follow them, even if that means telling them to take the check back and put in a different %. I’ll go one better, back in college a group of friends went out and due to our party size the establishment automatically added a 15% tip. One of my friends laughed and told the waiter to take his check back and to redo the tip, the waiter was at first like, “Sorry sir, but our policy is to add 15% to all groups of 8 or more” but my friend said, “No, you were a great waiter and I want to tip you 20%, but you didn’t give me any place to do that on this bill.”
European wait staff like being payed a living wage without relying on tips. And you can feel the difference. They’re not nearly as stressed out as servers in the US, and the interactions feel more genuine because they don’t need to kowtow or be obsequious.
I think this is a great point and hits on part of the problem. American service staff is a career of delusion, similar to construction. On paper they see they can make X amount of money, but they never do, they don’t think they need benefits because they’re young and healthy, and they think they will be as fit as they are in their 20’s forever but they won’t. Construction and service alike are exploitative and they aren’t in a healthy place, but withholding tips from the worker doesn’t fix that situation and just hurts the employee.
barista
Wow. I’m in Australia and the person who gets most of my tips is a barista, anywhere
I generally empty my change in the tip jar if they have one and the service is good. I believe in tipping good service
100% agree and that’s why people do give the barista a dollar or two. If your drink was $5 then 20% works out to be about a dollar, but it’s different from servers who get 20% on $40. At least in the US, if you frequent somewhere, especially if you are a recognized regular, then you should tip because people will remember it.
If I was in the US, and I bought a coffee equivalent to what my local gives me, I’d happily tip regardless of culture or wage. The cafe down the road is insanely good, but there’s not a lot of bad coffee around here.
I would say that experiences vary greatly and there are plenty of discerning people who appreciate great coffee. Local coffee shops in the US are plentiful, but we perhaps get a bad reputation because of McDonalds and Starbucks. There is something to be said for just wanting a coffee or espresso right now quickly without too much regard for quality or price, that’s where McDonalds and Starbucks reign. Personally, I never order from either because their coffee and espresso is bad IMO. Now, my local coffee joint (which is a local place that operates out of a shack with a drive through) makes great coffee and I always give them a dollar or two.
But in the end it comes down to: FUCK YOU PAY YOUR FUCKING STAFF
Staff are paid though? I think I’m having trouble with understanding what your specific complaint is? Are you from the US?
In the USA, it is illegal for anyone to make less than federal minimum wage. If a tipped employee does not earn tips, the employer must make up the difference. To not do so is wage theft and illegal.
It doesn’t work on a per-shift basis. If they work a slow, below-minimun weekday and a busy, above-minimum weekend, they aren’t bumped up on the weekday. What actually happens is their weekend is counted against their weekday. Many shifts they do in fact walk out with sub-minimum wages that do not get corrected.
It’s a system that’s great for the rockstars is busy urban areas pulling in hundreds of dollars a shift. For everyone else in the industry, not so much.
“But overall they’re making above minimum.”
While true, it’s similar to a laborer working a 12 hour shift and not getting any OT because they’re under 40 for the week and OT doesn’t kick in until hour 41. They still worked a 12 hour shift and 4 of those hours should have been OT, but due to how the hours are counted their employer is able to avoid the payout.
In conclusion, mono means one, and rail means the capital is fucking over the working class.
My fucking girlfriend always asks me if I tip when we get counter service and there’s a prompt on the pos, and I can’t get thru to her that unless it’s sit down, a bar, or delivery I don’t tip unless there’s an actual reason to do so.
I fucking hate that there’s a cultural guilt in this country of wasting 15-20% extra on food to uphold a fucking post-slavery jim crow policy.
Exactly. When it comes to food service, if all you did was make it and bring it to the counter, that’s all just rolled into the price of the meal. If you’re bringing it to my house or refilling my drinks and taking empty plates away while I sit and enjoy myself, then that’s beyond the meal itself and I’ll happily tip for that service.
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Not sure where you live but this is now also the case in Germany
UK, a few chains tried it here but I imagine it was enough to drive people away so you don’t see it much anymore
Fortunately, I have never encountered a tip asking card terminal in northern Germany. When I tip, I do it cash anyways. Tips don’t go to the boss…
That’s because businesses use POS machines with american software. It’s all over Europe now, but usually the staff will click “no tip” before handing it to you, because they don’t want tipping culture sneaking in and threatening their livable wage.
Yep, in Berlin they’re fucking everywhere. There are also a lot American tourists/immigrants now who happily tip 20% or 25%, so it has slowly become more and more standard in the last 10 years. Kill me now…
Didn’t they have self checkouts that asked for tips at some point?
🤯
somewhere around 2020 everyone and their mother starting asking for tips, even places that don’t pay tip-based wages. it’s just pure corporate greed over here. my guess is that it’s on by default by the payment processors and most people don’t turn it off.
This is a product of the myriad of unconfigured PoS systems. If you just Google shit you’re supposed to tip for before going into a country, you should be good to go. It’s the same thing I do when I travel. While I do agree that the tipping culture sucks, I think it’s more rude as a visitor to completely ignore social norms and constructs.
Travelers who aren’t tipping are just stiffing a waiter who is working their ass off during the busiest time for their establishment and probably making that person sour on whatever country they’re from. I can’t realistically see how this path leads to meaningful change or righteousness.
It is, you can just put 0 for those things. I think they market those devices doing that as an opportunity for an upcharge.
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Honestly, there’s nothing funny about any of this.
There was nothing funny about joking about glassing the middle east or invading europe, but here we are.
Yeah, like I said, “any of this” includes that. Watching the US becoming the Nazis is not entertainment when you know it means people will suffer, not just the people you think should suffer.
A tip is meant to be “Here’s an extra $10, I know you’re already getting paid a living wage, but you went above and beyond and were the star show the show, you deserve it.” That’s not what we have in the USA, we have some broken tipped minimum wage that makes it feel like an obligation. It’s broken.
It’s also the same in Canada. The tipping has also been in fast-food and other stores, and I’ve just been saying “skip” every time. Like, food’s expensive enough these days without tipping someone who hasn’t even gone out from behind the counter and who will, quite possibly, not even see the tip.
Enter India, where the service is so intense that it makes you blush. They do not demand or expect tips.
Some fast food places have started turning off the machine tip request in my experience lately, but most still have it including mall food courts
And bonus that in Canada, most provinces have the same or only slightly reduced minimum wages for tipped staff.
Before you say this is great, remember that those people willingly traveled to the US for a fascist event.
Any way the US could keep them?
Tell someone in uniform they have drugs. The president will shoot their plane down.
If you don’t like tipping culture, don’t screw the worker while inconveniencing the restaurant not at all. Boycott the restaurants unless they pay fair wages. Go to the grocery store. Plenty of good meals to be found there.
If a waiter does not make enough in tips for minimum wage, the businesses is legally required to cover the difference. So let’s stop with the guilt trip. Part of the problem stems from the same servers that oppose doing away with the tip system because they make so much more from it.
Ha.
I’ve served plenty of time in the food service industry and I can tell you that the number of restaurants who actually “make up the difference” to minimum wage in the absence of tips is zero. Even though it’s a legal requirement, I’ve never set foot in a restaurant that actually does this.
No one tracks cash tips. And yes, the servers like it that way. Because cash tips are money under the table and they’re not taxed. But your boss ain’t paying you jack shit over that $2.13 an hour because who is going to prove it?
I believe you when you say this.
But why is that the customer’s problem? You have legal protection should you wish to pursue it. The fact that you accept the situation shouldn’t mean it’s on everyone else to support it.
I grew up in the US so I’m annoyed by tipping but personally wouldn’t boycott it. But i would also have no issue with those that do. My biggest gripe is this push for 18-20% as a new normal.
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“not only is this a gross system of exploitation, our law and order government is also completely ignoring the few rules they introduced to lessen the suffering”
Yep, that’s exactly the size of it.
Why should the customer support a tax grift?
$7.25/hour isnt enough to live on. Servers still need the tips to survive. That’s $1,160 gross per month with 4-40 hour weeks.
Sounds like we should raise minimum wage.
I nearly doubled last time it was raised, and needs to at least double again.
The system really needs to change, so that prices aren’t constantly rising too.
well I already spent my tip money at the department store when an employee helped me, I didn’t budget to have to tip every service worker I interact with
and it’s federal law, so applies in all states
If it were enforced, it would
unenforced laws in a country are nobody’s problem but that country’s. One can’t blame tourists for one’s own lack of enforcement.
Even if it was enforced to the letter of the law, that’s still only $1,160 gross wages per month (assuming the employee got a full 40 hours for 4 weeks). Federal law stipulates that workers are paid at least US minimum wage which is $7.25/hour. Federal law doesnt say anything about guaranteeing the raised minimum wage rate set by any state legislature.
again, that is your country’s problem, not mine. You’re a first world country, supposedly.
You seemed to say that federal law provides protection for underpaid workers, and I pointed out that it doesn’t provide that protection. You then blame the country for the lack of protection, which seems tantamount to victim-blaming here - you seem to imply they shouldn’t be working where they are.
I agree that the tourists are not the cause of the issue - but are places that engage in this practice places you want to patronize?
If a waiter does not make enough in tips for minimum wage, the businesses is legally required to cover the difference. So let’s stop with the guilt trip.
OH YEA, cuz that worker who gets paid $2.13 per hour is totally going to be able to afford pay a couple thousand in legal fees to take the billion dollar “Mega-Restaurant Corp” to court and wait the 6 months to several years to get judgement and gather their back pay of $200.
Ahh yes. I forgot small claims court doesn’t exist and that all restaurants are mega corps.
But that requires a personal inconvenience instead of feeling good while saving money.
Visitors staying in hotels also don’t have the luxury of a stocked kitchen to cook meals
If you can’t afford to feed yourself without helping somebody get robbed, then you can’t afford the vacation.
Sounds like the workers can’t afford to work at a restaurant. General strike or find a better job. Tipping culture is cancer.
Boomers in America say the same thing, except to vote harder instead of general strike.
Imagine going into a restaurant and telling the employees there that they’re enjoying a luxury they can’t afford, and should simply get better jobs. And that it’s their fault for not general striking, in a country that fights tooth and nail against unions in ways you don’t understand. American corporations have murdered the families of strikers. Anyhow, that’s why you get this nice cheap holiday.
I bet you had a simple solution for the workers of the 2022 World Cup too.
Time to fight back harder, I guess. Or continue doing nothing.
Username checks out
If the employer cannot afford to pay THEIR employee, then that is THEIR problem. I didn’t hire them.
that’s just moving the responsibility to the masses as usual
How about “I will pay you 100% of the bill in cash, you pocket it and I walk out. And promise me you rise up against those bastards.”?
They’ll surely be able to rise up while surviving on that $50 you gave them.
why are servers special? what about all the other people making minimum wage?
They aren’t paid ‘regular’ minimum wage which is i believe somewhere between 10-20$ in most if not all US states, but a ‘tipped wage’ equalling <5$ hourly in most places, though afaik laws vary greatly between states. They are special because even with tips they might not make a living wage. Not saying that everyone earning minimum earns a living wage, but their financially they are just not in an equally shitty position.
32 states have a minimum wage higher than federal minimum wage.
However, federal law is the one we are talking about. Federally, servers are paid $2.13/hour. A restaurant needs to supplement income if a server’s wage plus tips is less than $7.25/hour (US minimum wage). The Fair Labor Standards Act only requires restaurants to pay up to federal minimum wage, not a minimum wage that any state legislature has come up with.
Federal minimumm wage is $1,160 / month gross income, if you work 40 hours for 4 weeks. This is unheard of in the restaurant industry, servers never hit 40 hours. Restaurants dont schedule that many because they dont want to risk any overtime, where they would have to pay time and a half ($10.85 /hour) rather than $2.13/hour and insurance.
exactly, minimum wage is not a living wage. that’s the problem. servers aren’t deserving of tips just because they also make minimum wage but with the opportunity to make more
That’ll show those service workers for working in the US.
Don’t get me wrong I fucking hate tipping culture so much and am eternally grateful that I don’t live in the US but who are you really punishing here?
In the current system it will not change unless it is forced by things like this or progressive policies. You want them to just keep it going how it is?
World cup is too short term to change it, will have to be slow policy push for minimum wages.
If you want people to strike then support them, misleading them into thinking you’re going to be paying them for their time and labor (tipping is expected in the US, which is why in many states it’s legal to pay servers barely more than $2/hour) is just a dick move. Or just be upfront with them and tell them you’re not going to be tipping and get served accordingly. Or go to a place where non-tipped workers are employed. There are a lot of options that aren’t ‘shit on someone working for $2/hour and tell them it’s for their own good’.
I begrudgingly tip, but usually 10-15%, like it used to be. I don’t buy into the current bullshit narrative of driving up the expected percentages, especially as prices rise as it is. Some might say I’m still an asshole for NoT pAyInG tHeM eNoUgH, but so be it.
So many tipped workers fight to keep being abused in this way, and I don’t reward that, even if I support these post-slavery practices through cultural guilt alone.
As soon as the “no tax on tips” passed my baseline tip dropped 5%.
What about the cooks? Hostess? Other back of house staff?
They generally get a portion of the tips. It varies from place to place, but when I was serving it was about 3% of total sales, regardless of tip percentage. If you did $1000 in sales, $30 of your tips went to BOH and support staff, whether you made $100 or $300.
Thanks for the info! Cheers!
Aren’t back of house staff generally making minimum wage, not server wage? That’s what I had the one place I worked for a bit.
That’s my point.
Asking from a place of genuinely not knowing; are there a reasonable number of places where non-tipped workers are employed in this sort of sector? If so, it might be really handy to put together a list, so people can more easily make the choice to go there, rather than stiffing staff who need the tips to survive.
It’s going to vary wildly as to who is paired expecting to be tipped and who isn’t.
Generally no fast food workers are tipped, it’s restaurant/bar only. And restaurants that don’t allow tips will generally advertise it. Off the top of my head I don’t know of any chains that don’t do tipping, but I also don’t eat out much.
You’re not going to change the fundamentally broken culture of the US by punishing a few service workers. We’re not talking about the current system being good or whether or not it should change, we’re talking about a bunch of tourists refusing to tip.
I mean it’s not an individual act here, it’s starting to look like collective action. A mass boycott of tipping would force a crisis where workers walk out en masse. Euros are giving Yanks the push they need to build on this, with unions, a collective organization, strike funds. This is the only path towards tipping abolition, a relic of class oppression and a mechanism by which capitalists shift wage costs onto consumers, esp disgusting when we know attractive or white servers often receive more than equally skilled counterparts, deepening racial and gender pay gaps and fosters a power imbalance that enables harassment: 74% of female servers in the U.S. have experienced sexual harassment, often tolerated because their income depends on pleasing the customer.
Yeah, actually. Waiting tables is one of the few, ubiquitous jobs you can get without higher education that has a reasonable chance to pay well.
This flight against tipping is crab mentality. You’re not doing them any favors, you’re just going to lower their wage to $18/hr flat, with no healthcare and still shitty part-time hours, and some corpo is gonna pocket the difference.
Servers in USA don’t get 18.00 flat, usually.
No, they don’t. But they usually do better than that now, with a free exceptions.
For the record the $2.13 min wage is bullshit either way. When the min wage is under $10 we don’t need a special exemption for servers.
Workers in Europe weren’t handed the rights they have, in some cases people literally died fighting for them. The only tip I have for American service workers is “unionize”.
You think American workers haven’t suffered and died fighting for their rights? I know this information is not exactly front and center in history books for reasons of shame and intentional obfuscation, but American worker rights history is stained in blood just as yours is.
Lmao you think we were handed this? We’ve been fighting for our rights to unionize for literally decades on end. Our government works with companies to literally kill us if we don’t go back to work. Men women and children have died fighting for the rights we DO have.
Fuck off with this “you’re only getting this because you aren’t trying hard enough to unionize” bullshit. Our rights have been bled for by hundreds of thousands over the years.
Our rights have been bled for by hundreds of thousands over the years.
Exactly, so honour the people that paid for your rights with their blood, and fight your exploiter instead of picking fights with other workers.
And that’s why it’s moral for me to mislead someone who is paid $2/hour into serving me for money I’m not going to give them 😌
Sure is telling that nobody who thinks this will tell their server upfront they’re not tipping, lmao
Whose misleading who? I would say that in this case, it would be the people that are not up front about the expected price of a service.
If tipping is required up front, then include it in the prices (and I don’t mean as an half hidden fee tacked on the announced prices like American businesses started doing).
American service workers are putting the blame on the wrong people, the only ones scamming them are their bosses.
I would say that in this case, it would be the people that are not up front about the expected price of a service.
So when an employer is misleading you the correct response is to short change the underpaid employee, who will have it come out of their inconsistent, unreliable pay? Can’t relate.
And you’re absolutely misleading the worker when you come to a place where tipping is expected and then don’t tip. They aren’t being nice to you and paying attention because they’re so enthralled by you, it’s because you’re expected to pay them. If you aren’t, say so.
10000 Men Named George
Don’t make excuses, try harder.
Don’t go to the US
For many reasons.
If the servers don’t get tips anymore, they might simply strike for a living wage. The current system just makes servers even more dependent with every single tip that replaces what should be a wage. Somethings gotta give, it’s not the workers, and the bosses wont budge without pressure, so even if it’s hard, it might be the only way something really changes for the better.
They aren’t going to strike from this event. Wait staff don’t have insurance or savings. Restaurant owners can’t afford to pay living wages with benefits; the margins are razor-thin as-is.
Have you never heard of strike funds? If service workers can’t even pay rent they’re going to strike and walk out, breeding a crisis that will make tipping culture untenable.
Europeans coming to America and not tipping isn’t going to breed a crisis, it’s going to breed animosity towards Europeans from the service workers.
The problem is the workers who get tips generally like it because they can potentially make a lot more than a comparable fixed wage. On a good night you can make several times over the base wage, and under-report cash tips on your taxes (or omit them entirely, but the IRS might catch that).
So a lot of workers don’t want tipping to go away any more than the restaurant owners do.
Then they also have to deal with people who see through the shenanigans and refuse to tip. Fuck em.
But base wage for those positions is also significantly lower than minimum wage because the tips are expected to compensate for it, so the ceiling is higher but the floor is also lower. So refusing to tip at all does kind of make you out to be the asshole.
Unfortunately most people are just trying to survive and don’t really have the time or the energy to worry about the bigger picture.
Personally, I just split the difference and refuse to tip anywhere it’s not already factored into the wage structure. It’s not gonna change the situation but at least it helps hold the line.
Unionise and change the situation, or lose. I’m not paying money I can’t spare because people refuse to help themselves. I repeat, fuck em.
So be upfront and tell them you won’t be tipping, and get the service you’re paying for.
Shouldn’t servers tell the customers how much service they should expect based on the amount they plan to give in that case then?
That doesn’t make you some champion of the working man, it makes you a cheap asshole. You are taking advantage of their labor more than the restaurant owner.
Advocate for change, absolutely. Refuse to patronize restaurants that expect/require tipping. I’d even say it’s fair to stop buying into the tip-inflation (15% used to be standard, then 18, now 20+), that’s fair, stick to 15%.
Hell, since at most restaurants you pay after the meal, why even pay that? After all, you knew there’s a cost before you had the meal but “you can’t spare it.” I’m serious, you wan’t to make a point, leaving a note that says “pay your staff better” and no cash makes a stronger statement than simply not tipping.
Living in the UK, I easily avoid giving any such slave driver my money.
I’m simply explaining why the rest of the world isn’t like the US, workers collectively fought for rights, simple as that. Either get on with changing it, or keep complaining about being stiffed (while pocketing off the books income in a lot of cases). Shrug
This discussion is about Europeans coming to the US and giving money to the restaurants themselves (the slave drivers) but not tipping the staff (the slaves). Absolutely support a decision to protest such a system by not patronizing it; but patronizing it but not tipping is just cheap. You’re not some savior of workers rights, you’re a cheap asshole. That is a harsh truth you need to come to terms with.
Non tippers get a reputation around town and then are treated with bad service, largely ignored by the staff. Big tippers get treated to complimentary meals, desserts, wine, and more.
There is also the angle of poor servers being treated with low/no tips, the long term goal of which being to get them to treat customers better or drive them out of the business.
That would also require being unfortunate enough to be in the US for a protracted length of time.
While the UK is indeed a shit hole and getting worse thanks to Trump wannabes and other associated scumbags only a hair’s breadth from being out and out Nazis, it isn’t quite as bad as the US. Yet.
Edit: I have spent time in the states, but it’s direction in the last decade has put paid to me ever returning, for business or pleasure. Fuck that.
I live in Canada, not the US. We have tipping here as well, but we don’t pay restaurant servers $2/hr. They get the same minimum wage that everyone else gets. We still have tons of World Cup tourists refusing to tip and creating a big conflict.
I think some restaurants are moving to automatic 20% surcharges on the bill as a way of dealing with non-tippers.
Those workers are the equivalent of scabs, even if they don’t realize it and don’t have bad intentions.
I’m being punished by being forced to tip.
Employer. Their employees will eventually quit, and it will get harder for them to hire new ones. Tipping does not help here, it lets the employers do what they’re doing now.
Unfortunately righteous causes don’t pay the bills.
Aint no one cares about rightenouness when it comes to Jake and Emelie behind the counter at McDonalds, so what makes servers special?
Because i highly doubt they’re being tipped
Expectations is the main difference. Servers are expected much more than Jake and Emelie. Very few people go to a full service restaurant and are ok receiving the same service they do at McDonald’s. That’s understandable, the price between both is significant but I do think if full service servers were only expected to provide the same level of service and expertise as Jake and Emelie they’d be like, “fuck yeah!” Where are as the opposite wouldn’t be welcome without a raise by Jake and Emelie. I feel it’s important to consider this to further the discussion otherwise we’re no better than current Reddit.
What in the world are you talking about? And what makes you think anything you said is even remotely relevant?
No… people dont go to a resturant and expect McDonalds level of service. They’re also not going to pay McDonald prices nor expect to recieve McDonald food quality (or lack there of).
My expectation of atmosphere, food, and service is directly tied to the advertised price of the food.
Regardless. I’m not paying my garbagetruck driver twice. And they quite frankly performs a much more important service to me than any waiter ever could.
I pay my taxes. And they’re paid from that. Just like i pay for my food, and would expect my waiter/chef/manager to get paid from that.
As of your last note. Please just stop… people make up Lemmy, people make up Reddit, and people are always a bunch of bastards. No one is better than the other.
In the United States, servers are paid less than McDonalds employees.
Europeans should educate themselves more if they want to get involved in our broken, shitty systems.
The Resturants are required to pay a minimum wage. UNLESS, the tips they recieve brings them above minimum.
So no. They’re not paid less. At worst. They both make minimum wage. Americans should educate themselves on their own shitty system
Technically correct (over a pay period though) but this is how you get fired as a server.
You’re a pos, though.
Says the one not even tipping his minimum wage fastfood workers, why do you hate them?
Even when the righteous cause is a living wage? 🤔
Yeah, not paying a tip cause you think the worker deserves a living wage definitely fucks the worker over, rather than the business. So there might be righteous anger, but it’s directed at the one you’re trying to help.
Maybe tip workers shouldn’t have been fighting for tax less tips, and should have fought for a real wage?
I know so many tipped workers who fight to be able to guilt customers into paying their bills instead of just having a real wage. And they’re going to find out that people aren’t going to keep paying more and more guilt money to servers. I remember when 15% was the norm, and now people are saying it’s 20, and fuck that.
Only in the short term
Unfortunately, most servers are in the class of workers whose economic activity exists entirely in the short term. Without proper organization and unity in action, short term disruptions could have fatal implications.
They should organize
Nah, it’s better to guilt customers into paying your bills, for some reason.
Nice “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” impression. What’s next, the homeless should just stop being homeless?
You’re right! Organization is impossible, so workers should keep being exploited.
It will sound brutal, but they are stupid to living with this system. Imagine all costumer facing jobs to be depended by tips. Like tech support, cashiers, shop assistants, baristas, and every worker you meet as a consumer.
Tips was about extra for elegance and nice service. I know living wages are shit, and that’s why it became a norm all over the world. But it is something extra, so the worker can have pleasure, not to get through life.
For servers in the US specifically it’s not true that it’s something extra, it’s become an expected part of their compensation structure. They have a special, lower minimum wage they’re allowed to be paid. (If tips don’t cover the difference between that and minimum wage, they still have to be paid minimum wage.)
Sorry, on this parenthetical, for non-Americans, can you clarify?
Servers are paid less than minimum wage, but if they don’t get tips enough to cover the delta, they are paid minimum wage?
So does it go to the employer to cover your wage, are tips reported for tax, etc? Are there any repercussions if a server is consistently not tipped? Can they fire you?
It varies by state, some do require servers to be paid minimum wage and don’t have this weird exception. The ones day do allow them to be paid something like $2 an hour instead of $7.25 (I forget the exact numbers). Then if they don’t make enough in tips so their “effective” hourly pay for the day is minimum wage, then the employer had to cover the difference.
Tips are reported as taxable income. I’m sure many servers take cash tips and don’t, but that’s between them and the IRS. Assuming everyone is behaving, yes, tips are taxable income just like “normal” income. (Even income from illegal activities is considered taxable.)
Repercussions for not getting tips? Maybe. I haven’t been a server. I’m sure it can happen, I’m not sure how often it does. As for can they fire you? Yeah, most likely. Every state but one has what’s called “at will employment” which gives workers the “benefit” (lol) of being able to quit whenever, but also let’s employers fire you for any reason (apart from a very small number of things like discrimination).
Basically, say you work one hour. Minimum wage is $7.25. The server minimum is $2. You make $3 in tips. Your employer would need to cover the additional $2.25.
A lot of this is effectively moot since minimum wage has stagnated so far behind inflation. I think a lot of places are already offering above minimum wage for their lowest paid workers, but I’m not sure if that includes servers.
As a past server, it’s incredibly easy to make that threshold. But it’s also based on an average per pay period. If a server has a giant party that tips $30, and nothing else in a 6 hour period, it’s still 2.13 for those 6 hours. And any corporate restaurant hates paying servers. Servers would be fired if they consistently needed pay (not often) or worked overtime (decently often, because then corporations would need to pay $9something an hour)
It’s not extra here. It’s expected unless they do a really bad job. I don’t care how the rest of the world is. This is how it works here. Don’t come to our country and shit on our culture and expect us to thank you. What the fuck is wrong with you people?
But it doesn’t. This simply takes money from the servers.
Subsidizing business owners isn’t good for the workers
So you’re boycotting the business or you’re just not tipping the server?
Boycott
There’s lots to unpack here.
- In at least the west coast states, tipped workers do not make a lower wage.
- I’m not aware of any successful restaurants in the U.S. who have higher prices eliminating tipping and pay their staff a salary. Every instance I’ve seen of this fails.
- Servers make more money under a tipping culture over a set wage. They’d rather have tipping.
I’m not defending tipping as the way it should be, only that this is the way it is. Any one coming over to the US and not tipping to “make a statement” isn’t hurting the restaurants, they’re hurting the workers. And while we rightly expect US tourists to respect the customs of countries to which they travel, we should also expect the same of tourists to the US, at least those customs that affect the workers.
These tourists will “make a statement” for these couple of weeks, giving business/money to the restaurants but none to the staff, then leave and nothing will have changed except the bank account balances of the staff. If they wanted to make a statement, they’d seek out restaurants which already more closely aligned with their position.
I’m not aware of any successful restaurants in the U.S. who have higher prices eliminating tipping and pay their staff a salary. Every instance I’ve seen of this fails.
Of course. Practically every other restaurant in USA is charging much lower prices with their much lower wages.
Remove that from the equation (make them all pay actual human wages for people so that they can live in houses and so forth), and no restaurant in USA can do that. Problem solved.
Somehow, restaurants ALL OVER THE EARTH can stay open without tipping.
Figure it out
USA resident here.
The only way it’ll work is making tip culture illegal.
Raising minimum wage and undoing the underpaid tippers law.
There’s a special law that allows restaurants to pay something like $2/hr and expect them to get tips. Sure there is a clause for owners to cover the rest to match minimum wage but that’s still BS.
Again. Tip culture won’t go away until it’s made to by law.
It started out at bribery for better service at restaurants damnit. Then somehow got morphed into a law to allow owners to pay thier staff less. What. The. Fuck. Capitalism.
What’s worse. Carry out places all have tip prompts. A tip for what? Putting my donut in a bag? That’s literally your only job.
I never tip anywhere unless I sit down at a place to eat and actually recieve a restaurant experience. Someone cooks a meal and a waiter checks in on me.
Call me cheap or an asshole but I’m not tipping at any takeout spot.
It started out at bribery for better service at restaurants damnit.
Worse, it started out as a way to not pay non-whites a decent wage while ensuring they must act servile to get by.
I too wish we lived in that reality in the US, but we don’t. Any more than we use the metric system or have universal healthcare. Maybe one day.
But today, ask anyone in a tipped position if they’d rather work in a restaurant and get paid a flat “livable” wage and they’d say no. So if they don’t want the system to change and obviously the restaurant owners don’t either, you can’t really advocate for the system to change saying it’s on their behalf.
other countries still have tipping. it’s just not necessary to survive.
I’d gladly swap if I got an actually livable wage.
Serving is far from the worst thing i’ve done for $20/hr. The problem is that ‘eliminating tipping’ means i’d make $7-12 per hour, which wouldn’t even pay rent.
There are quite a few restaurants and breweries around me that pay their staff a living wage and dont have any tips. You can tip if you want but they specifically have signs up saying you dont have to.
And they all seem to be doing great - theyre pricey but not holy shit expensive.
It depends which servers and at what restaurant or bar or place youre working. Not all of them make more on tips, and that always fluctuates.
Also having benefits and vacation time makes a huge difference. The places near me Im speaking of all give their servers and cooks and etc multiple weeks paid vacation and full benefits.
I know this because im friends with a lot of the bar staff and waiters at these restaurants/bars/breweries and I talk to them when im there.
I agree that this is hurting the workers, but what youre suggesting also just keeps the status quo the same and changes nothing. The entire system needs to be torn up, and that requires everyone in this country demanding better.
Perhaps, but that’s such a high societal hurdle that I don’t see happening any time soon. I like the idea of that, but it’s tempered with the realities of the present.
I’d be interested in knowing which establishments you’re speaking of. I know they exist, but they (in my experience) hardly ever last that long. I’m a restaurant consultant by trade, and have about 75 restaurant clients. I’m in California, a state that (thankfully) does not allow for paying less than the state minimum wage for tipped position, and can tell you that it’s now the norm in California for labor cost to exceed 40% (yes, even in tipped establishments) of sales, and while that’s good for the income of the staff, there’s basically nothing left on the bottom line. Labor cost is high, costs of goods are high, rent is high. Anyone considering opening a restaurant would almost certainly be better off putting money into a CD; no risk and almost guaranteed to return more on your money.
Traditionally, 30% labor, 30% costs of goods, 30% overhead (including rent) has been a rough guideline. That returns (in the best of cases) 10% to the owner. You open a restaurant with $1 million in sales, you get $100,000. If your labor it at 40%, there’s nothing left and thus no reason to open in the first place. That there still are places trying is amazing.
Again, being in California I get a skewed look at things. Skewed because benefits for employees is already required and in many cases paid time off too. $17/hr plus tips isn’t a lot, but it’s as livable as things get living in CA.
The harsh reality is that while in many states the tip credit allows restaurant owners to offload the cost directly to consumers, in more progressive states like California or Washington state, labor is close to pricing themselves out of the market.
And again, thats literally how everyone keeps the status quo, by saying well this is the reality right now it will be really hard to change it. You gotta start somewhere and do something
Im in MA and there are places all over like deadhorse Hill, armsby, wooden bar, fox farm, jewel box, novare res, Maine beer company, treehouse, etc
Your choice of establishments do not disprove my point. Most are breweries, which don’t have the typical sit-down type restaurant experience in which a tipped position is most common/expected. But, nonetheless, I looked at each one.
- Deadhorse Hill. Eschews voluntary tipping for a set 20% service charge. This is just tipping with another name.
- Armsy Abbey. No mention of tipping policy on their website or menu. Perhaps they do in person.
- Wooden Bar. No mention of tipping policy on their website or menu. Perhaps they do in person.
- Fox Farm. Does not have food.
- Jewel Box. Permanently closed.
- Maine Beer Company. Does not specifically call out tipping policy, but notes “All contributions made above and beyond your final check will be donated to nonprofits,” suggesting that tipping is not expected. That’s pretty cool. Also appears to have counter, not sit down, service, and a very limited menu.
- Novare Res. No mention of tipping policy on their website or menu. Perhaps they do in person.
- Treehouse. No mention of tipping policy on their website or menu. Perhaps they do in person.
Jewel Box was open a month ago when I went and as far as I can tell is still open based on both their website and their Instagram.
Maine Beer Co has sit down service for sure
And the others pay their workers living wage, most have it on signs in the restaurant/bar/brewery and again i know most of the people there.
Perhaps I was looking at the wrong Jewel Box.
By sit down, I mean there’s a server who takes your order and brings your food. The type of service most associated with tipping. I’ve never been there, but Maine Beer Co. really really doesn’t look like that’s the type of service. I’d put money on it being “counter service.” The only “full” sit down restaurant on your list appears to be the first one, the one that has a 20% service charge. You can’t use this as an example of no-tipping. It is still a tipped establishment.
It’s all fine and good that the establishments say that, but they’d be well advised to advertise the fact.
I’m a restaurant consultant by trade, with 75 clients currently, and managed restaurants for twenty years. I have no doubt your friends at these places are well compensated, but I’m wary of the claim that they are so specifically because of a no-tipping policy.
This is 100% true, even if people dont like it
Absolutely no clue why anybody wouldn’t like it, other than just being stubborn and not listening.
A general unwillingness to accept that any issue may be more complex than a paper thin façade.
“What’s the best way to oppose this anachronistic holdover of Jim Crow? Why, to punish the oppressed, of course!”
Aside from agreeing with your statement, I’ll also never not upvote comments which use diacritical marks correctly.
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It’s 100% false, even if you don’t like it.
(see the rest of planet Earth for examples to contrary)
Nobody is saying they like that tipping is what it is in the US, just that it exists and that not participating in no way harms anyone other than the workers themselves. There’s nothing false about that.
They exist, but I feel like I could count all of the one’s I’ve seen in my lifetime on one hand, and even then people usually still tip out of habit and it generally feeling weird not to.
This is just showing the cruelty of the European assholes who thought it was a great idea to visit our besieged country with the intention of enjoying themselves.
Don’t force to take a picture with ICE, guys. Or visit the fucking concentration camps. Buy a MAGA hat before you go.
The thumbnail above is fucking accurate. The"chad" guy looks like he’s a rich, European prick that’s had work done. The kind of guy that moves into an LA mansion and pretends he’s humble.
Fuck these trash people. Power to the fucking workers. Down with these scabs.
Unionise and change things, or keep whining about being stiffed. Take your pick.
Maybe. But those doing the stiffing are still cheap assholes doing it for their pocketbook, not the betterment of the workers.
People don’t stiff waiters here. That’s how you get spit in your food (to name the least offensive thing they’ll do).
Workers protect their own. And good for them, because management certainly doesn’t give a shit about them.
Having been in the industry for 25+ years, I’ve never seen anything like that. Besides, how would staff know they are getting stiffed before the bill is paid.
Yeah I think that’s an anti-worker stereotype used to characterize workers as greedy, violent, and spiteful.
Most of the people in foodservice i’ve known ended up there because they love food. They enjoy handing someone a great meal or suggesting the perfect cocktail to pair with a dish. They aren’t going to ruin someone’s food like that because they genuinely care about their profession and craft.
I think it’s a pro-worker stereotype, in that it gives people a self-interested reason not to be an asshole or stiff their waiters.
I worked in a restaurant for many years and i can’t tell if you all are bullshit.
The Europeans arent making aome grand statement about tipping cukture,mtheyre just rucking cheap.
no, i just don’t give money to beggars, That’s not the same as being cheap.
Tipping at US rsatauranrs are simply how servers are paid. If you decide to eat oit in the US, tips are part of the social contract for table snd bar service.
no, it is not
You are incorrect.
learn your own laws
👌
If you don’t like the tip economy, then don’t participate in it by avoiding restaurants that underpay their employees. But don’t take it out on the employee, they’re already the victim, and the restaurant owner doesn’t care about your protest.
If anything, tip your server in cash, then run out on the bill.
The thing is, lots of tipped workers also fight being paid a living wage because they make way more money off tips than they otherwise would at a job with similar qualifications. If a server is only working 6 tables in an hour and averages only 5 dollars a table in tips, that’s $30 an hour. There’s no way that if tips were eliminated that restaurants would bump salaries that much.
They could still collect tips, nobody is stopping that. They would just have to be paid a normal minimum wage as well. There is no reason that restaurant owners should be given the only exception in paying a minimum wage. Why should they be the only industry that forces the customer to directly pay their wages?
Maybe we should do that with cops, or politicians. They get $2 an hour, and then get tips FROM THE CITIZENS, when they do their jobs correctly, and the Citizens are moved to show their appreciation. I suspect we’d see cops and politicians behave much better.
The law says: nope.
Change your laws. Stop whining. Servers voted to keep the tip system because they make bank. Don’t complain.
People who are over worked and underpaid were convinced their employer couldn’t be trusted to pay them a proper wage isn’t the successful argument you think it is
https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about that?
Or this comment chain on this exact topic https://sh.itjust.works/post/62128604
Or even better, something that is just typical of you fucks, a NYpost piece is triggering this discussion:
Whereas, and don’t mind me laughing at your ignorance, it turns out that:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article316182333.html
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
? What
I don’t see how is Europeans stiffing you on a tip is immoral
You guys are seriously confused if you think you can guilt trip people into believing they are in the wrong. I had a long discussion on this exact topic before and really no arguments were presented to prove otherwise so come on let’s go for round two
I say: it is wrong to expect people from a completely opposite mindset, culture and background to know that slavery should be supported with their contributions. I think it’s fucked up you guys can only whine about a few missed dollars when there is so much going on that is affecting our lives over here that you idiots had a direct influence on. Let talk oil prices and ram prices, you think I would blaim you personally for that too? I think it’s time to do that even if I know it’s morally wrong. Because, in the words of Louis Rossman: I will hold you to the standards you hold me.
So tell me again how my argument is not that good. Fuck you.
a few missed dollars here can be the difference between rent and homelessness. and i assure you things are getting increasingly brutal for anyone in this country who needs a home, food, medical care.
a random server at the chain restaurant (patronized by people privileged enough to travel internationally to see sports games!) is NOT responsible for the strait of hormuz or the AI bubble!
Then how is one missed tip responsible for homelessness and not your own voting choices
https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about that?
Or this comment chain on this exact topic https://sh.itjust.works/post/62128604
Or even better, something that is just typical of you fucks, a NYpost piece is triggering this discussion:
Whereas, and don’t mind me laughing at your ignorance, it turns out that:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article316182333.html
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
Traveling to a fascist occupied country stiffing low wage workers while telling them to get a better job. You can’t be serious.
https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about that?
Or this comment chain on this exact topic https://sh.itjust.works/post/62128604
Or even better, something that is just typical of you fucks, a NYpost piece is triggering this discussion:
Whereas, and don’t mind me laughing at your ignorance, it turns out that:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article316182333.html
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
Yes I am. Go to the Capitol en masse instead of meekly accepting your fates you COWARDS
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https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about your own?
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Ugly European
Nazi lover
“change your laws” you say to the below minimum wage worker as you don’t pay for the service you received. I don’t remember voting to rely on the generosity of assholes to pay my rent. Server’s in most restaurants barely scrape by, it’s incredibly rare for them to “make bank”. And before you say “work somewhere else” take a look at the current job market and see who’s actually hiring.
Correct. Not every server is a bartender in a local place that gets a tip-out on top of their tips from reasonable people. Some are servers in a chain restaurants that serve the least grateful, understanding, and intelligent people around. I mean, I had a lady complain that her medium steak had pink in it. It’s not the server’s fault if the customer is a moron.
you think you’re the only country with an underprivileged class that had to fight for themselves? (or at least want to… americans don’t even get to the “wanting to” stage)
Where did I even imply that? The conversation is about the situation in America, specifically. Do you respond to “Black Lives Matter” with “All Lives Matter”?
Get a proper job? Leave? Demand fair compensation by including gratuity in the sales price instead of allowing modern day slavery? Complacency with a system like that is damning
Learn to read
What the hell does that mean, your arguments are stupid.
https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about that?
Or this comment chain on this exact topic https://sh.itjust.works/post/62128604
Or even better, something that is just typical of you fucks, a NYpost piece is triggering this discussion:
Whereas, and don’t mind me laughing at your ignorance, it turns out that:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article316182333.html
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
The only correct take. Everything else is virtue signalling.
I never before thought about FIFA bringing attention to social issues but think about it, the book the spotlight on Qatar, and now the United States, they should probably go to North Korea next.
They’re just gonna go to wherever is corrupt enough to give them the biggest kickback.
The book the spotlight? What?
Don’t hurt fellow workers unless you’re a capitalist.
Fun fact: These states require tippable workers to be paid the full minimum wage:
- Alaska
- California
- Guam
- Minnesota
- Nevada
- Oregon
Source: Department of Labor - Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees
Tbh, this is a distraction. News channels pointing to those (few probably) pesky foreigners refusing to tip, and everyone falls for the rage bait.
I’m surprised europeans even go to USA… with ICE arresting anyone who looks at them funny…
Also - I think people should do what they want in this specific matter. USA is supposedly “land of the free” so as long as there is no official government-mandated tip amount, tipping 0$ is as good as any tip amount. Tipping is as much of a cultural thing as the tax level, that is - none.
If you had to guess, how many European World Cup fans do you think ICE has arrested, so far?
Hopefully zero
Then why surprised?
I’m teaching you a lesson by giving you business, then finger wagging at you.
