Yeah why doesn’t Europe have trains?
Europe definitely doesn’t have trains already.
Still too much plane for local journeys
And is France train are not cheaper than planes or buses… Which is stupid, they should start to properly taxe Airlines
They’re building high speed rails connecting major European cities as we speak, we’ll be good
Do you happen to use Dvorak?
Sorry for the random question out of this air, but the in/is typo is something that happens a lot to me while being nearly impossible on “standard” keyboard layouts.
No, and I have no idea how I could do this, could be my brain rephrasing after I started writing
And it would be BEPO(dvorak-fr) for me but on the phone I don’t really find any advantage
We do. Not as much as we used to because privatisation is a plague upon mankind, also we have very diverse geography which makes developing new lines prohibitively expensive, even more so when you’re a private company. Add to that a lack of political backing and yeah, it’s all rather turgid, even if there are some extremely recent talks concerning transeuropean night trains and such.
Those are going to be for our nice flat and speedy routes no doubt, but hey, it’s an effort in the right direction.
But yeah, things are not gonna get better fast as long as we are cursed with privatisation. What a shit show to see our glorious TGV reduced to a shell of its former self.
Meanwhile I just got an article yesterday that Wuhan is now connected to the super high speed network and the first 450kph train now connects it to Shanghai. Last time I was there the train was already TGV levels of speed and much more modern, and only a year later they are leaving us on the fucking dust…
China sees investment in mass transit as a loss leader. It costs more to put in than it generates in fairs, but the boost to connected economic zones pays back the cost several times over.
The US sees investment in mass transit as a detriment to the airline, automotive, and fossil fuel industries. It would shrink the economy in three places where the nation has tried to goose growth for the last 60 years.
For real. If those idiot neighbours would stop fucking around, we get trains from Wuhan to Bordeaux in about a week. It’s a real game changer.
What if we told them they could keep killing each other, just on the train, and then we’d make a murder mystery about it?
I never really understand why historically trains were so rare in the US. They had loads of trains at one point left over from the industrial Revolution and then they seemed to decide to get rid of them all. Even Beaching didn’t shut down that many lines
Rail lines were converted to highways. They weren’t simply removed and abandoned, they were cannibalized to clear space for more lanes
We still have them all, we just prioritize moving cargo on them.
I’m from Europe. What’s a train?
If you’re on a long tube that travels quickly on the ground from one city to another, and everyone is talking in Spanish, you’re in a train.
If you’re in a long tube that travels quickly on the air from one city to another, and everyone is talking English, you’re on a plane
My total journey from Berlin home this week was about 50 minutes late, and the connection after the ICE was not pretty.
Apparently Germany’s problem is that they run all the high-speed trains on the normal lines which means all of the normal trains have to work around them. Obviously you can’t have a normal train in front of a high-speed train so if the high-speed train is delayed by even a small amount it has a knock-on effect where a bunch of local service trains have to sit around waiting for the line to clear.
Everyone else runs high-speed rail on their own tracks. So everyone gets to do what they want and not affect anybody else.
The French do it better than the Germans, which is just not an acceptable state of affairs.
I’ve heard flights are sometimes also late or even cancelled
50 minutes isn’t that bad tbh. I dont remember the last time I flew that there wasn’t a delay. Hell even the whole arriving 2 hours before ,finding parking, going through security is all so much more of a hassle.
I’d much rather walk 5 minutes to the local subway head to the hauptbahnhof and wait 50 extra minutes for my train. I can at least go get a reasonably priced coffee while I wait.
It was bad enough. Schlimmer geht immer.
Also, comparing flights and trains doesn’t really work, I think. The getting into the plane time alone makes it too different.
Yeah, we have trains at home… (greece)
If high speed rail becomes popular, all that stands between the current freedom and ID-required tickets and fingering by agents is one terrorist attack, staged or not.
What are you going to do with a hijacked train? The moment you hijack it they’ll just shutdown power. Hostages? Good luck there are like 30 carts on the train all of which have window break tools and emergency door open tools.
Look at Germany or France. High speed trains are everywhere and there is no ID requirement beyond maybe a ticket check if you’re unlucky.
What are you going to do with a hijacked train? The moment you hijack it they’ll just shutdown power. Hostages? Good luck there are like 30 carts on the train all of which have window break tools and emergency door open tools.
Only for Eurostar and some other international trains you get some checks when boarding, especially since Brexit.
There’s barely any checks they basically glance at your passport and go, yep you have a passport, you can pass.
Presumably if there was an arrest warrant out for you there’s a chance they might do something, but then again they are French so you’d have to catch them at a good time.
Yes indeed if you want to be safe book a train that leaves between 12:00 and 14:00 that’s when they’re at the bistrot for lunch.
Who said anything about hijacking? Think explosives etc.
Or driving it into a sky scraper !!!
What if the train is the size of Chrysler building? 🤯
Ok. Thinking explosives. Where are high speed trains being attacked by explosives? I don’t hear much in Germany, France, China, or Japan.
Those countries arent full of Americans though. If a thing exists Americans will try to attack it.
Don’t jinx it.
My point is once a terrorist attack happens, there will be TSA like checks for getting on high speed trains.
My city (Mumbai) has seen multiple local train bombings so the newly built metro lines have baggage scanner at the entry.
Don’t jinx it.
As I said in another reply, too late, by twenty-one years.
And yet, no TSA-like bullshit.
Commuter trains aren’t high speed trains though.
True (though the AVE also stops at Atocha, as it did back in 2004).
They also tend to carry more passengers, which means the number of victims was significantly larger than if it had been an AVE.
And yet, your prediction of a nine-eleven-like security theater didn’t come to pass. 🤷♂️
Didn’t cause security theater, though. 🤷♂️
Those are dense packed commuter trains from more than 20 years ago. Sort of the opposite of comfortable high speed long distance trains now days.
If you search for “bomb train” you’ll get results but it might be worth looking deeper than the headline.
Those are dense packed commuter trains from more than 20 years ago
So, even fucking worse when it comes to number of victims.
If you search for “bomb train” you’ll get results
I don’t need to search for it, it was all over the news for months.
And yet, we got over it.
We’re taking about high speed trains here. Independent of that, regarding attacks on commuter trains getting over it without American style tsa is a good thing.
Somebody didn’t watch Christophe Lambert’s The Hunted…
Or Under Siege 2.
Was that the one with the Apple Newton sending a fax?
What do you mean there’s already been terrorist attacks on trains but nobody really cares because it’s a train.
Shhh! It’s an american, he can’t comprehend high speed trains.
They are already wildly popular in diverse regions in europe btw.
Who, me? The furthest west I’ve been was Wales.
Sorry, I thought someone who didn’t know speedtrains aren’t already wildly popular, and has already been targeted by terrorists must be american. Take that as you like 😉
one terrorist attack
Had one in 2004, didn’t result in security theater (though its mishandling did almost certainly result in the ruling party losing the election).
We don’t even have that stuff on flights here (at least within Schengen). On my last 4 flights I had to show my ID once and the security check is just standing in the scanner thing for a second.
I never had actual cavity search but it varies within Shengen. Germany is the least pleasant, always some problem. Last time they insisted on searching a preschooler.
I’m sure they’d finger you if you asked nicely, and have showered recently.
I hope they don’t find any lump
Are you sure? There’s at least one lump I hope they find, but it’s kind of deep up in there.
in china there are similar security checks for high speed rail
Has to harm billionaire asset to matter. Killing the rest of us is a game billionaires already enjoy and would applaud the Panem twist of a visiting team
Americans can’t do trains because it requires public infrastructure (rails), which apparently we are allergic to.
It’s literally socialism!
Can’t do public infrastructure, unless it’s roads.
As someone who boycotted the TSA for like 5 years and only took Amtrak, the tickets are not always cheaper. I mean sure, you can get across the country for like $100.
Even when I was doing Boston-Baltimore on the Acela, it was routinely slightly cheaper to fly.
Amtrak is not cheaper, but trains in other countries are. Because Amtrak, specifically, sucks.
AmTrak is designed to suck. Freight lines own most of the rails, and while they are required to give priority to passenger trains, they avoid this in several ways. Like having the freight trains too long to fit on side rails so the passenger trains are required to stop instead to make way.
Flying is way cheaper in Europe. Partially because trains are taxed much higher than flying.
Not always. Flying from Amsterdam to London is cheaper and faster than taking the train. The train is usually sold out because people still prefer it, but…
Amtrak on the east coast is decent, it’s offensively bad on the west coast and most places in the middle of the country.
Americans can’t do high speed rail because we have aircraft, automobile, and petroleum industries who don’t want us to.
ah, the free market
To be honest, I haven’t seen anyone else mention the real reason: America allowed private companies to buy and own the lands under the rails in the 1800s in order to deal with the massive distances across the US to connect the West and East. 150 years later and just a few companies own almost all the track and rail across America. Almost all private, not public land. Public citizens and communities have very little control over the railways going through their communities. These companies lobby against and make it difficult to introduce new, public rail lines for a multitude of reasons. This is one of very many examples of how corporations abuse law, monopolistic practices, and media to lessen the power of American citizens.
That doesn’t even take into account that a lot of rails in the US are owned by Canadian companies.
Meanwhile, right wing parties in Quebec are fighting against a tramway project in Quebec city, that the entire country agreed to pay for, for which we have already invested half a billion, build stations, etc. They call it “War on cars”.
Where do I enlist?
Honest fuck this.
So you love driving and more people on the road will get off the road and take the train. It means you can drive even more! Why wouldn’t you want that.
Because they don’t give a shit about driving? They care a lot more about their family members that own car dealerships, or are involved with the petrochemical industry.
Or they saw that American rightwing grifters talk like this so they are cargo culting the fuck out?
The US has been fighting for years to put a high speed rail in between DC and New York. Every right-wing neighborhood in between is throwing signs out stop the maglev.
The monkey paw grants your wish but all the trains are built by Boeing.
Those are called trolleys because they don’t have doors
Honestly I think it’s just sticker shock. I would say that as soon as we get some people would be more willing to get more, but no, because people are hesitant to expand existing rail. MARTA please expand, I beg you. Oh great spirits of public transit, I pray that you soften the NIMBYs’ hearts.
It’s so upsetting that every small town in my state has an old historic train stop but none of them are actually passenger train stops anymore. Once you see it you can’t unsee it. I am 15 minutes from my town’s historic train stop which is a steak house now. My parents are about the same distance from theirs, probably even closer, but it’s a museum or something. Can I just take a walk to the train, ride down, and see them? Nope. Gotta deal with the hellscape that is metro Atlanta traffic.
Not to shit on your perfectly reasonable parade, but in Germany there is high speed rail through the whole . takes about 6 hours from top to bottom.
Now look at the scale of the US versus Germany and then the density of people living there. High speed rail makes alot of sense where it’s difficult to build (bosnywash) and does not scale well in terms of time spent traveling.
Its better than car, but won’t replace air travel anytime soon. Sadly.
France has nearly the same population density as Ohio, and it has the TGV, which covers more than 5 times the land area of Ohio. So where’s the Ohio high speed rail network?
This is the scale of Japan compared to the US east coast:
So why aren’t there high speed lines that cover that same distance in the US?
Americans complain about US politicians and US policy on a near constant basis, and yet when comparing the US to other nations its apparently impossible for anyone to have made a stupid or self-serving decision. The US apparently is always operating at the absolute limit of what’s physically possible, and if there’s any deficiency compared to its peers its never because something was done wrong. Its always because “the US is too big” or “we’re too diverse” (what does that even mean? You can’t have nice things because black people exist?).
To be clear there are actual answers to the questions I posed above, but its not either of those moronic excuses.
Those lines do exist in the US. They are privatized, shitty, and expensive.
what does that even mean? You can’t have nice things because black people exist?
It kind of is though.
Can’t have nice downtown because blacks live their so all the whites go out to the suburbs. End up with shitty inefficient suburb hell and under funded downtown.
No one wants to use public transport because of a sense of crime so only the lowest income people use it meaning further funding loss.
Nothing in America is for “the people” paid by the state except highways, oil and pouring water into the desert everything else needs to run a direct profit ignoring externalities.
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China is disagreeing, right now. Not disagreeing with your arguments, but they are definitely pushing a lot more than us because the amount of people you can move is ridonkulous compared to planes and cars, their geography seems to be helping and the technology is getting ridiculous (450kph trains, right now).
Not to shit on your perfectly reasonable parade, but in Germany there is high speed rail through the whole . takes about 6 hours from top to bottom.
Maybe not a great example there, with that running something like 100 km/h average speed.
If you bump those numbers up to be competitive with actually high-performing HSR operators, that trip would take 2-3 hours, immediately killing any competitive edge that air travel would have on those segments - 2-3 hours will basically get you to the airport and through security, you’ll have arrived already if you were on a well-performing train by then.
HSR is the best alternative for any trip up to approximately 800 km, at which point air travel starts beating it out. This is for daytime travel only - trains could be competitive for far longer distances with overnight sleeper service. I’d not be against taking night HSRs going between any points in Europe basically.
Alas, this would require non-shit politicians, which definitely does not exist
I’m not sure about other countries but one thing Amtrak has over planes is that they’re more disability accessible. Still making improvements on legacy equipment but they’re under the ADA, whereas airlines lobbied themselves out of it, which is why they never bothered to create wheelchair spaces or accessible bathrooms or even seats a normal human can occupy comfortably.
tbf if airlines had to serve people they could not be profitable
Not my problem.
you say that but could you say that to an A class shareholder on the verge of tears over not being able to retire at 50 they might even have to work
Ha!
I would, and look them in the eyes the whole time while smiling.
I’m a huge train and transit advocate and I try to take Amtrak every chance I get. But “tickets are cheaper” does not feel like a blanket statement we can make. Maybe on very specific, usually short legs, like Chicago to Milwaukee. Someone correct me if I’m wrong or there’s more nuance but once a trip goes past 3 or 5+ hour mark, the price seems to skyrocket past airfare.
Oh, that is definitely true in the U.S.
Also, I’ve found that rail travel is inconvenient in the U.S. I can’t confirm, but it seems like the Amtrak only comes through my (Midwest) area once a week, on Wednesdays or something like that. So, if I plan a trip, I need to plan around.
Midwest to the East Coast is so much cheaper and faster by air. I want to travel by rail - and you’d think it should be cheaper - but it’s totally not.
Part of it, I believe, is that Amtrak leases the usage of the rail lines from the shipping companies, so it must adhere to their schedules of shipping freight. The USA spends so much on upgrading its highway system; if they used a fraction of that money towards rail travel we would be set. But certain companies keep lobbying Congress to keep us locked in a model where we are totally reliant on cars and gasoline.
Also true in many cases in Europe.
You can get a flight ticket for under 20€ between Germany and UK (RyanAir), and have to pay tenfold that for a train ticket.
Or a 30€ ticket to Romania per plane. Booking a train to Romania is much more difficult and expensive and also easily over 100€.
I would wish that train tickets are cheaper than plane tickets, but if you cross country borders, booking train tickets becomes expensive and difficult in Europe.
Not even going international on a train can be more expensive.
It cost me almost the same price to take the ICE (not that one yanks) from one part of Germany to another, to visit my mom than it was for me to fly from Germany to Latvia on Ryanair
In Europe when you book ahead of time and are not too specific about the dates you can fly much cheaper. If I want to go from Amsterdam to Barcelona I can get a much much cheaper flight. Why would I go for the option that is slower and more expensive?
I wish trains where cheaper I’d take them more often.
I once heard someone make the argument flying is cheaper because a plane can fly from one airport to almost any other airport. So when you own a plane you can use it in a much more flexible way. A train can only go over a fixed track, yes you can use switches etc. But when you build an airport basically any plane can go there immediately. For trains it doesn’t work like that. Make matters even worse in Europe usually train operators are national and most trains don’t cross borders beyond a few stations.
Cheaper? come to the UK, where flying can be less expensive than rail
You guys pay to get railed in UK?
woah i wouldn’t pay for that
Is there any parody porn about TSA? I want to masturbate to it. As long as it’s not too noncon (like TSA in real life), I don’t really care about the details (I’m ok with any gender, large insertions/fisting, etc.).
TSA exists, therefore…
Is there any parody porn about [a thing]?
Yes. The answer is always yes.
Why would Americans care about trains when they’re gonna be a billionaire any day now and have their own private jet?
/s
They’ll only be a billionaire if they pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
