They call it “dark traffic” - ads that are not seen by tech-savvy users who have excellent ad blockers.
Not surprised that its growing. The web is unusable without an ad blocker and its only getting worse, and will continue to get worse every month.
The trade body called it “illegal circumvention technology”
Lol. Fuck off.
Once the data enters my network it’s my fucking data and I can do with it what I please.
Likewise, I can prevent anything from even entering my network that I don’t want on it.
That’s more to the point!
Unless it’s intellectual property that belongs to the movie industry. Then you better not touch it. Or that’s illegal.
But if it’s advertisements, then you have to watch it, or that’s illegal.
Mildly pedantic, but uBlock blocks the connection before it enters your network
Yeah. As if hacking into someone’s mind is their right. Talk about entitlement…
What should be considered illegal circumvention is allowing articles behind a paywall to be included in search results.
And this is exactly why Google did away with Manifest v2 (what uBlock runs on) and why they wanted to introduce their “web integrity” standard. At that point the pages would be signed with ads and in the signature didn’t match the page wouldn’t even be shown.
They tried to play it off as “ensuring that you truly get the correct copy of the page and no bad hackers have intercepted it” but really it would have 100% forced ads.
Then I guess I’m not looking at those pages. No skin off my nose. That said, Firefox with Ublock Origin plus a couple of other ad-blockers seems to be working pretty well for me. Anything with a paywall, I just move on.
Then I guess I’m not looking at those pages. No skin of my nose.
That works until every website starts doing it.
:shrug: So be it.
Exactly. I’ll go back to browsing the web with Lynx before I accept ads. If it breaks, it breaks…
Gladly go back to every site having an animated ‘under construction’ gif.
I use Mullvad’s VPN and DNS on a router level. Every device on my network is blanketed by it. Some services don’t work, but I am willing to sacrifice their profits for my integrity. Thus, to them I say 然らば fuckmothers.
To think that Google once had ads that I considered OK, just a bunch of text and links. How times have changed…
Advertisers will always keep pushing things trying to find the limit where people will just barely tolerate it. Then when they push it too far they cry “no fair!” When people stop putting up with it.
The O.G. add blocker.
The concept is close to the same, how could something like this be seen as “illegal circumvention technology”?
It just shows us how disconnected the people in these positions can be that are regulating these things.
Fuckers want to colonize my property (my computer). that’s what’s illegal!
They wont be happy until eye tracking technology makes sure we sit and watch their fucking ads before the actual content appears.
I mean, none of this is getting better. Its only going to become worse. I have ads in the fucking pause screen on my streaming tv app. So if I want to take a toilet break, I get an ad in my face. Its just so ridiculous.
What most of these people don’t get is if they didn’t get so invasive with those ads, people would not have to resort to ad blockers. Be it tho shut up the ads every few seconds on YouTube or having to play whack-a-mole every time I read an article, eventually you run out of patience and say “enough!”
Lol they will even say blocking phishing links are unethical
Say here’s a thought: can we sue ad companies for theft of electricity? They’re using my electricity to display their ads, without my consent.
Not to mention my internet fees.
That was for 12ft.io Bypassing a pay wall. Not blocking ads.
They can still fuck off.
I used the internet for a long time before ad blockers even existed. Everybody simply ignored ads, instead. But that wasn’t good enough for the advertisers. They weren’t happy unless we were forced to look at the ads. Extraordinarily obtrusive ads. Popup ads. Popunder ads. That’s when people started blocking ads. When you realized that your browser always ended up with 20 extra advertising windows.
Nobody really cared about blocking ads until advertisers forced us to. They made the internet annoying to use, and sometimes impossible to use.
Advertisers couldn’t just be happy with people ignoring their ads, so they forced our hands and fucked themselves in the process. Now, we block them by default. I don’t even know any websites that have unobtrusive ads because I never see their ads in the first place.
Now, they want to go back to the time when we would see their ads but ignore them. Fuck off. We know we can’t even give them that much. If you give them an inch, they’ll take a mile.
The main clencher that got me running a blocker were the few sites whose payload was 90% ad related and as long as the page was open it kept feeding me more ads until a gigabyte of RAM and 5% of my CPU were dedicated to something I wasn’t even looking at.
Ex was mad that my PiHole was blocking some FB stuff so I turned it off.
“The internet’s slow.”
Looked over her shoulder and pointed to her (still loading) screen:
“Ad, ad, ad, ad, ad, ad, ad, ad…”
“FINE! Turn it back on!”
Don’t date stupid people. Incentivize intelligence.
I know surgeons who can’t start a zoom call. Being uneducated in a particular area is not stupidity. If you avoid dating someone over their lack of adtech knowledge, I would assume they are the one that dodged a bullet.
adtech is nothing new or exotic. We have been dealing with this shit for years. if they still do not have a very basic knowledge of it by now, that’s not a great sign.
Unix and lawnmowers are nothing new or exotic either. I’m not stupid for not knowing how to repair a lawnmower, and I wouldn’t presume you’re stupid just because I can run circles around you at the command line.
I would, however, question your intelligence if you lack the ability to perceive the reasons behind different people knowing different things. It’s not that complicated.
Oh I’m fully aware people can specialize their intelligence, focusing so much on some areas they neglect others and fall behind. However, that’s also a choice they made. That unbalanced tech tree was their own doing.
Ads used to be static text in the sidebar that the site owner manually put there. They didn’t have any tracking and didn’t slow down the loading time. Once they started adding images, I started using an ad blocker. I was stuck on dial-up until 2008 and a single, small image could add 10 or more seconds to the page loading time.
2008! Bro I feel for you, retrospectively.
I was even okay with images. It’s when the images started moving, making it difficult and distracting to read text that I realized if they are willing to sacrifice the core purpose of the page for ads, it’s only going to get worse.
Remember the target that would move back and forth really quickly to try to get you to click it?
Preach!!!
The use of the term “Dark traffic” here is to paint the use of ad-blockers as something nefarious. Don’t use it, fuck these people right in their stupid mouths.
I propose using the terms “clean traffic”, for ad-blocked website traffic, and “dogshit traffic” for everything else.
Maybe we could turn it around: adblockers are tools that block ads and other kinds of dark traffic such as trackers and malicious scripts.
They are so short sighted to. Ad blocker help advertizers. It allows sites to fill up sites with ads to the point of being unusable while not losing 100% of traffic. That keeps these site relevant enough that old people who don’t have ad blockers end up there too when they follow links or google ranks a site high because it has traffic.
If they got rid of all ad block somehow they would have to decrease the ads because I wouldn’t use the web. Or online communities would be way more conscious of the ad level of the things they link to.
The tech community is pacified into not taking action against the polluters by our adblockers because we don’t see the egregious ads and so we don’t fight the good fight for the user.
Ad blockers are the fight. Those users who can’t be bothered to learn a bit about the devices they spend so much time on aren’t owed anything.
What does “fighting the good fight” even look like to you in this context, anyways?
those users who can’t be bothered to learn
snooty tech elitismWhat does “fighting the good fight” even look like to you in this context, anyways?
We built the entire infrastucture, we can poison it’s business model.When the first banner ad appeared on the web, the condemnation was not loud enough and it was allowed to fester.
At this points these entities have become large enough that the evil practice that could have been snuffed out, is now being accepted.
Now every slimey thing on the internet is due for the mother of all crackdowns. Something like the GDPR times 911.I’m not in the mood for centrist technocratic measured solution at the moment.
If it makes more than a million a year and it’s using any kind of psychological tactics,
that’s advertising, sponsored search, dark patterns, then BURN IT ALL DOWNThe tech community came up with a technical solution to the ad problem. If the solution you’re looking for isn’t technical, why is your focus on the tech community?
Anyone can learn this shit. Use any search engine, type “how to block internet ads”, and you’ll see results with “firefox” and “ublock origin”, that can then be put into “how to get” follow up searches.
The current state of ads is being accepted by those who don’t block them. Everyone who does block them (or refuses to visit ad cancer sites) has cut off that source of revenue, but those who just choose to accept the default option enable them by not just seeing the ads but even sometimes clicking them and buying shit.
depending on your household’s browsing habits, it can be downright insane how much traffic goes through ones network (and the web at large), that is just nothing but dog shit.
I monitored my pihole at my place and my own traffic is usually no more than 15% garbage with about 750,000 domains blocked, but the second grandma or grandpa starts doomscrolling boomer things on their phones and ipads. I saw the network traffic at 60% blocked one time and I had to confront them and flatly ask them “what the fuck are you doing on your phone?”
also set up a Region exemption or whatever, blocking russian, chinese, and a whole bunch of other untrustworthy TLDs and im literally showing my grandmother the repeated attempts to communicate with something in fucking China in real time whilst she’s playing some solitare game she downloaded.
I saw the network traffic at 60% blocked one time and I had to confront them and flatly ask them “what the fuck are you doing on your phone?”
Be careful of the answer. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
rhetorical question, I know what she’s doing, clicking on random shit and then blaming other people for her problems.
every intrusive advertisement or popup. “I got hacked” every wrong website she goes to “this is a scam”
You shouldn’t say that to your Grandma or Grandpa. :)
both of them shield, coddle, and enable a 53 year old man who is an overt Nazi and purge/mass death obsessed eugenicist freak, (my uncle), a lot more needs to be said to them honestly.
Something simple that people would ask why you want it. Also needs to be non-aggressive. Like non-content traffic. Why would you want something that is not the content?
Clean traffic, smooth traffic, able-to-get-to-where-you’re-going traffic
Well, “dark traffic” sounds SCARY. You wouldn’t want to do anything scary, would you? Like, use the computer you paid for to control the content you want to see? /s
Goodput vs shitstream.
People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you’re not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you.
You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity.
Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It’s yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head.
You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don’t owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don’t even start asking for theirs.
– Banksy
Cool quote, where did you get it from?
From Banksy’s 2004 book Cut It Out. Banksy, in turn, ‘got’ it (in its original form) from Sean Tejaratchi’s 1999 essay in his Crap Hound zine. 😅
Obligatory xkcd 624:
GitHer
I can clone her…
Step 4 - success - Attention aquired. 😅
Besides the miserable experience unchecked advertisements cause, it is simply not safe to allow those advertisements to load.
A few years ago (before SSDs were common) I noticed unusual hard disk activity when loading a popular link aggregation site. A bit of investigation turned up a Trojan on my system. After removing it and reloading that site, my PC was immediately reinfected. The site owner denied any responsibility and said it was the advertising company’s fault.
The way the Internet operates now means no one is responsible for the content their site provides or the damage they cause. Imagine if restaurant owners were able to deny responsibility for the atmosphere in their restaurants or food poisonings they caused? IMO it’s the same thing.
Advertisers and websites have created the “dark traffic” mentioned here by repeatedly poisoning the public and they deserve the massive loss of revenue their behavior has caused.
Name and shame. Who’s the link aggregator?
but it’s icky to say its name 🥺🥺🥺
joking aside, I’d wager it’s reddit
It’s happened directly on Google before. Advertisers aren’t vetted except in specific industries. It could happen on any site, trusted or not.
Advertising needs to become as socially acceptable as smoking.
It arbitrary pollutes any environment it’s conducted in, and causes secondary harms to non-participants by incentivising insecure hoarding of private information with the intent to better target individuals.
Agreed left unchecked it is horrible, one of the darkest pervasive elements of capitalism, used in a manipulative manner. We’ve reached astounding understanding of human psyche and are using that knowledge with advertising to control people’s subconscious. It’s disgusting.
Reminds me of the bill hicks quote on advertising.
The sentiment is influenced by many.
While I definitely agree that most advertising these days is terrible, I do wonder how it should be done. How would you market a product you made? I genuinely want to know what you find acceptable.
Say that you invent a new type of ladder that is much more stable than normal ones, or maybe you start 3D printing a very cool figurine that you’ve designed. In either case, you realize you have a product that some people will probably want to buy, if only they knew about it.
You probably won’t go to an ad network, I wouldn’t. But do you make a post about it on Lemmy? That’s advertising. Do you tell your friends about it? Most of them probably don’t need a ladder, but maybe a couple would buy your figurine, though that is unlikely to be enough to kickstart your 3D design company.
Raw-dogging the internet without an adblocker is about as irresponsible as not using contraception
For a few years, even the FBI officially recommended that everyone should use an adblocker. They recently removed that PSA from their website, I believe with the new administration:
https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/22/fbi-ad-blocker/
https://www.pcmag.com/news/fbi-recommends-installing-an-ad-blocker-to-dodge-scammers
No
gloveblock, nolovebrowseAnd just like STDs, those malware-laden ads can infect your whole system before you even relaise what happened.
Perfection!
I used to maintain a website for a bicycling club in my county that was great for getting people into biking, getting people out the house, making friends, and staying fit.
We had a banner ad along the top of the site for a local bicycle/bicycle repair shop that aided the club a lot and was very reasonable.
He got something out of it (publicity and a seal of approval towards the value/quality of his work), and we got something out of it (money to run the site, and a bit left over for things like puncture repair kits and the occasional celebratory drink after an arduous ride).
Nobody bats an eyelid to those ads. They are reasonable.
What we have now isn’t that. What we have now is an insecure, malware-infested privacy nightmare that ruins webpages and stresses everybody out.
Use Firefox + uBlock origin for your own sanity. Don’t let big tech make you feel guilty for not going along with their game.
Use Firefox + uBlock origin for your own sanity. Don’t let big tech make you feel guilty for not going along with their game.
100% this and also, consider allow-listing specific sites which deserve your support, or better yet, contribute directly if you can – e.g. your local bike club forum, your local newspaper, a blogger whose work you enjoy, etc., assuming of course, the ads are reasonable.
Guilty? Hahahahahaha
They will never make me feel guilty because they are the guilty ones. Guilty of greed and of destroying our society. Fuck big advetisers. They would put billboards in outre space if they thought it would make them a tenth of a penny more in profit.
I dont even consider them human to be honest.
Website: “You appear to be using an ad blocker.” Me: “You appear to be correct.”
‘disable ad block to contine’. no
There’s almost always another website that has the same thing.
yep, search subject of title. about as mush effort as fiddling with adblock settings.
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Then I just sigh and go to archive.is and solve their captcha, so I can read the article.
They got it the wrong way around. Visitors who use adblock are not “dark traffic”, the bullshit scripts and tracking they use are dark. The adblock users are actually the only clean traffic. The adblockers aren’t “brutal”, the people without blockers are being brutalized.
“dark” as in “not visible”. Adblock users can’t be tracked (or at least not as easily), hence they are not visible to the ad companies. “Dark”, in this instance, is not a derogatory term.
“Brutal” is, though. So I totally agree with you there. Ads are the brutal thing nowadays.
The way you word things matters. How many polls have shown the difference in opinion on ‘obamacare’ compared to ‘affordable care act?’
That is not wrong. But interpreting “dark” as “evil” is just wrong in this context.
You may be right, technically, but based on the context, I’m quite sure the use of the word “dark” here is intended to frame the behavior as negative. It’s just like when various media authors refer to TOR as the “dark web” even though it has countless valid uses that are not enabling illegal/immoral behaviors.
Yeah it makes sense from their point of view. I turned it around on them for the hell of it.
Millenials are killing the ad industry!
Good.
It would have to be millenials since Gen z exist almost entirely in the walled garden of a phone app.
Most people now a days don’t even use a desktop with a browser. I honestly expect that most of what they are “seeing” is just web scrapers for the LLM. Those are likely to “block” ads simply based on efficiency, since it shows down crawling.
Why would anyone use a desktop? That’s like a baby’s toy!
It honestly creeps me out that so many people don’t curate what they watch and just consume whatever ‘their feed’ puts in front of them.
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The trade body called it “illegal circumvention technology”, said 12ft.io has been locked by its web host, and promised to take similar action against other paywall bypassing technologies.
Just because you send bits to my network does not oblige me to render them. That’s like saying I broke the law back when I had cable and changed channels during ad breaks. Falls flat on its face.
Beautifully worded 🙏
Or saying it’s illegal to hang up on telemarketers
“Excuse me, but you didn’t allow this sales person to complete their pitch. We’re taking you to jail.”
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills whenever I hear them say things like this! These things belong to me, I should be able to control them. My perception, my LITERAL GATEWAY FROM MY MIND TO REALITY is mine and I have a right to control what I see.
Almost 70. Spent way too many years watching cable shit tv. I hate ads. I fucking hate ads with a nuclear passion. I have ad blockers, pirated shit and some services that do not show ads so far. If there are ads I find an alternative or read a book. Our teen son screams ad every time he sees one that sneaks through ad just to get me going.
a nuclear passion. I like that. surprised I never came across this phrase before lol
“Son, are those ads in my house!?”
dad, please, it’s only a little marketing!
“NO SON OF MINE! GET MY BELT!”
dad, no!
“What’s our DNS address!?”
dad, I don’t kno-
“Count the licks, boy! I’ll teach you the hard way!”
Wow. That is pretty violent. I do not envy your son.
Alternate reality foss religions were not on my imagination list this morning but there ya go
Ah somehow I knew religion must be involved to be so violent. Luckily I am not religious and my son could not be happier.
I am overwhelmingly happy for both of you.
I was raised Baptist. Don’t recommend it.
Jesus. How are you going to get to 8.8.8.8 belt licks?
(and please, for the love of god, don’t use 8.8.8.8!)
Joke’s on him, it’s 100.99.99.99
Oh dear, don’t ever forget your netmask.
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Meow?
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Nope, I did. Hmm, suffering from some stress? Confused a tad?
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Your batting a thousand.
Ad BwOcKeRs ArE StEaLiNg FwOm Us!!!
Meanwhile Google, Amazon, Facebook, and a billion AI web crawlers can hammer the fuck out of of your site and nobody cares.
The larger problem that is not discussed so much is the amount of Ai generated garbage that is put on the web now.
When these Ai web crawlers start to read that Ai garbage as source data, the models will start to become worse and worse, and as a result, our Ai clients will start to get worse and worse.
I dont think there is a way for the crawlers to understand what is Ai generated fluff and crap. The reasons the Ai responses are so good now is because people actually posted these solutions on the web. What happens when Ai crap overflows the web so much that good answers are drowned out?
Also, no ads in chat gpt yet. Thats going to change and it will become impossible to block those.
the web will die.
Maybe, but then who will supply the answers that Ai needs?
the AIs will just start their own circle jerks
While we talk about the Old Net beyond the Blackwall with our chooms.
