• TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Minute 1:30, it calls them a “fascist dictatorship”…

    Look, I’m not going to apologize for Iran in any manner. But calling them fascist isn’t, its not quite right. Fascism is a form of political identity. It has a specific meaning. The regime in Iran might be terrible, but its not fascist, per se…

    Also the comments on this video are wild.

    This video is hard to suffer through. I’d love to hear a deep dive, but I can’t stomach this.

      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        I’ve only ever heard it called fascist by people at both a) have no idea what iran is or b) have no idea what a fascist is.

      • phdepressed@sh.itjust.works
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        4 months ago

        “a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition”- merriam webster.

        Autocratic-check Dictatorship-check Economic and social regimentation-check Suppression of opposition-check The only thing missing is nation/race above the individual and arguably their extremist theism could be considered sufficient for this as well.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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          4 months ago

          “a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition”- merriam webster.

          Well Merriam Webster is wrong. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions. Fascism is a pretty complicated class of ideologies, but a characteristic attribute of fascism is always seeking enemies internal and external and “punishing” them and that is simply not present in Iran.

          • Urist@lemmy.ml
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            4 months ago

            fascism is always seeking enemies internal and external and “punishing” them

            1. Morality police definitely not hurting anyone. /s
            2. Iran is not in opposition to western imperialism at all, actually, they are surrounded by friends. /s

            That being said, I don’t think I would characterize Iran as fascist.

            If you really want to define fascism, you need to understand how it appears:

            Fascism is a counter-revolutionary reactionary movement led by finance capital and a form of dictatorship of the bourgeoisie which emerged during periods of economic crisis in imperialist countries. In other words, fascism is capitalism in decay.

            Thus many of its characteristics becomes an aesthetic dependant on the specific material conditions and social superstructure of its origins.

          • FishFace@piefed.social
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            4 months ago

            Uh, doesn’t Iran’s government obsess over Israel and the USA, and people at home who don’t follow Sharia?

            • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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              4 months ago

              Iran doesn’t “obsess” about the US and Israel; they’re geopolitical rivals with the US and Israel. This is like saying Russia or China obsess about the West. As for Sharia, I don’t know shit about the Iranian justice system, but theocracy does not equal fascism. These are two completely different things.

              • FishFace@piefed.social
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                4 months ago

                Which of those refers to their geopolitical rivals as “great satan”?

                But bringing in Russia is somewhat ironic here. Modern Russia has many fascist traits. Fascism is on the rise…

                • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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                  4 months ago

                  Which of those refers to their geopolitical rivals as “great satan”?

                  If someone does to you what America did to Iran you’d call them Satan too. There’s still no basis for the fascism accusation; countries under fascism will do more than call their rivals bad words.

                  Modern Russia has many fascist traits.

                  Yes, and it’s not because they hate America. Russia has everything from violence against minorities and expansionism to literal genocide. Contrast to Iran’s somewhat aggressive but restrained foreign policy.

        • Alaik@lemmy.zip
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          4 months ago

          I wish people would read into Mussolinis own words on this. The asshole invented fascism and wanted to call it Corporatism. The US is essentially fascist. Iran is authoritarian.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Iranians have a more democratic society than any other country you could name in the region.

        What they are is under siege. The eleven day war with Israel crippled their domestic infrastructure. And the ongoing sanctions placed by the US prevented them from rebuilding in a timely manner.

        • treesquid@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          That’s like saying that out of a rhino, a hippo and a horse, the horse is best at flying because it can jump. Iran isn’t democratic. It’s a single party theocracy that jails or murders it’s people for saying mean stuff about the unelected leader that was supposedly chosen by god.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Iran isn’t democratic. It’s a single party theocracy

            I count four major coalitions of parties, and a healthy batch of independents, which is more than can be said of any American, Canadian, or UK government. I don’t know how you get “single party” out of that. Hell, the Reformist coalition just took the Presidency a year ago for the first time.

            jails or murders it’s people for saying mean stuff about the unelected leader that was supposedly chosen by god

            You seem to have Iran confused with the US. It’s always fucking projection with you guys.

            • Godric@lemmy.world
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              How fucking disingenuous can you be? Like the number of prties is an indicator if how good you’re doing democracy, ignoring the rape, torture, murder, and disappearance of dissidents.

              You should be ashamed to defend such a brutal regime, unless you live there in fear of arbitrary arrest for not.

              • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                Like the number of prties is an indicator if how good you’re doing democracy

                “Iran only has one party and that’s bad”

                “The number of parties doesn’t matter, aktuly, and you’re stupid if you thought so”

                :-/

                You should be ashamed to defend such a brutal regime

                Wipe the Saudi light sweet crude off your lips before you try to deliver that line in earnest.

                I suspect your definition of “brutal regime” is “they won’t let me jerk it to women in bikinis”. There’s no real concern for Iranians assassinated by the Mossad or bombed by the Americans or starved through international sanctions. Nevermind the native expats hounded by western anti-immigration police or scientists who were kidnapped and tortured or civilians shot out of the sky for no reason at all.

                You only seem to understand “brutality” as a White Man’s Burden to resolve. So long as westerners get to exploit the labor and livelihood of a Middle Eastern people, Islamic Despots don’t seem to bother you in the slightest.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Do you mean the Guardian Council of Islamic Jurists? The populist leaders that lead the revolution against the Shah’s military dictatorship in 1979 and retain enormous popularity within Iran’s conservative religious community?

            They’ve got about as much “absolute power” as any unelected SCOTUS judges. The power is entirely derived from the Iranian bureaucracy’s loyalty to the Council over the Presidency.

        • WALLACE@feddit.uk
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          4 months ago

          Weird. Almost like picking fights with countries that can kerb stomp you blindfolded is a terrible idea.

    • CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world
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      How much of it did you watch? I watched all of it and thought it was very informative, despite a few errors. I don’t think they spent too much time on WHY the government is inept, just HOW inept it is. They shit on the current government and the Shah before them so I don’t see them playing favorites.

      Iran is pretty fascist-adjacent so it’s an easy mistake to make. They hit almost all the notes to play that song.

      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        I just finished with it and its terrible in this regard. There is no disambiguation between “just the facts” and the author/ narrators political opinions and identity. Not to say those opinions are wrong or invalid but its incredibly important to separate them and to clearly identify which is which, which even the most amateur journalist understands.

        Its the framing that’s the problem, and its often what a framing leaves out that ends up being more telling. You might re-watch it with a lens for what is missing rather than what is said, and honestly, its not my job to make the gaps in your political education apparent. Like, if you come away from this video with its explanation of “why” things in Iran are the way that they are, you’ll come away wildly miseducated.

        Just because something agrees with your bias, this doesn’t make it correct.

    • biofaust@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      As an Italian, I can tell you that I call theocratic regimes whose power is based on individual control and punishment at scale, fascist regimes.

      I know that totalitarian or, in some other cases, authoritarian would be more appropriate, but at least in my culture fascism has been the first and the archetype of all totalitarianisms.

      Not letting Iran enjoy the deserved hate it derives from an even longer history of antifascism would be too big a discount.

    • madcaesar@lemmy.world
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      Theocracy, fascist, dictatorship, the difference is fun for political majors to circlejerk about, but at the end of the day, these governments are hell for the populace.

      They torture, imprison and kill people that are different, people that dare dissent.

    • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Also the comments on this video are wild.

      Honestly, they are above par for YouTube.

      …So maybe they’re bots? The more expensive kind?

    • adr1an@programming.dev
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      Since when are we getting so heated debates about fascism? Trump has ICE, and no one discussed if he wasn’t facist before that. Learn to see the cues. Elimination of competing political rivals is just one aspect.

      Plus, if we were to look for a definition, might as well take one that accounts for understanding that facist regimes are, beyond all, a process. See for example the text by George Orwell: ‘What is Fascism?’ (1944)

      By ‘Fascism’ they mean, roughly speaking, something cruel, unscrupulous, arrogant, obscurantist, anti-liberal and anti-working-class. Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathizers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come.

      But Fascism is also a political and economic system. Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one — not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make. All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword.

      • adr1an@programming.dev
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        4 months ago

        And I wouldn’t say the use here is just a swearword. Saying Iran is under a fascist regime should unite us to identify a problem, the suffering of their population. Do not allow semantics to be one another reason why we are fighting among us, the people with radical decency.

    • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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      Fascism is a political buzz word. In some ways it is like communism was back in the cold war.

      • Bloefz@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        I don’t agree. Calling it a buzzword diminishes the terrible things that are happening in the world. There’s really a lot of parallels to the 1930s which is really worrying because the 1930s led to the 1940s.

      • Alaik@lemmy.zip
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        4 months ago

        I feel like most people with an IQ over 85 are understanding fascism more than communism now given recent worldwide geopolitical events.

    • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
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      Fascism is contantly evolving, thus calling it one is fitting. It’s not just swastikas, and some realized they can deflect accusations of fascism with stuff like being “anti-swastika”, but only performatively (see Russia for that example).

  • Rimu@piefed.social
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    4 months ago

    Same thing is happening in Iraq.

    After all the fighting, suffering and genocide in the region, it’ll all be for nothing once climate change makes it uninhabitable.

    • Ugurcan@lemmy.world
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      It was the oil wells and not the people who’s been “liberated” all along.

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      If there had been less spent on war they could have built some infrastructure to help with the situation.

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        They’ve had “infinite” free money for decades and have had Norway as a clear example to follow but have chosen to squander it all.

        Edit: I’m not talking about Iran specifically, although I understand the confusion, but the region in general as mentioned in rimus comment.

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          Gee, I wonder why they didn’t use their free money to improve their country. Was it the (at least for a while) US-backed dictator getting US aid and weapons to send young Iraqi men to their deaths? Or was it the US sanctions killing thousands of Iraqi children and impoverishing the rest of the population? Or was it the US invasion plunging their country into over a decade of civil war and instability that continues to this day? I suppose we’ll never know!

          • CybranM@feddit.nu
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            4 months ago

            The us invaded every country in the middle east? TIL

            Guess they’re never going to be the masters of their own fate, in 200 years they can still blame the us for any shortcomings.

        • Redacted@lemmy.zip
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          Them trying to use the oil for their own means is what started this mess. They did not have infinite money

    • JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social
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      4 months ago

      Thanks.

      Iranian law stipulates that 85 percent of domestic food be produced locally, Morad Kaviani, professor of geography and hydropolitics at Iran’s Kharazmi University, told state television last week.

      However, he added, Iran does not have the water and soil capacities, and nearly 30 percent of agricultural produce is wasted due to a lack of infrastructure, outdated irrigation practices and misguided crop selection.

      Sounds like one of the biggest root disasters, eh?

      So, this situation may only slightly be related to AGCC, but it does seem ominous in painting a certain picture of the future. I wonder if and when Russia and China step in, here…

      • ryannathans@aussie.zone
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        4 months ago

        So US sanctions and hostility basically caused the water crisis because they’re forced to maintain food security by growing it at home… In essentially a desert

        • JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social
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          Eh, reading the first article, it sounds like it was even more than that, as in: too much middle-management involved in making key water decisions, too much zeal post-revolution in building new dams, too much waffling and inadequate resoluteness at the leadership levels across several decades.

          In other words, the sanctions were no doubt a major blow, but the real issue seems to be how Iran responded to the blow. Plus a bunch of other stuff on top that didn’t help.

          Meanwhile, something I have no idea about is whether Iran’s regional allies, plus China & Russia, could have used trade and such to help offset the sanctions in the first place…?

          • blarghly@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Meanwhile, something I have no idea about is whether Iran’s regional allies, plus China & Russia, could have used trade and such to help offset the sanctions in the first place…?

            They could almost certainly offset it enormously. Rice and beans shipped in from China are unlikely to cost much more than those from the US.

            My bet is that “85% domestic production” threshold is less a result of sanctions, and more either (a) self-imposed isolationism, or (b) protectionist policies designed to empower one or other political faction in the country.

        • protist@mander.xyz
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          4 months ago

          Iran has open trade relations with China, Russia, and Turkey, which all have significant agricultural output. It also does quite a bit of trade with Europe despite sanctions. It does not have to artificially limit itself to importing only 15% of its food, especially given that irrigation is contributing to an unsustainable water crisis.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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            Note that just because they have open trade relations with a state doesn’t mean they can import whatever they want. It’s a Cuba situation; US secondary sanctions target businesses and they’re harsh. Water mismanagement is obviously a major cause here, but don’t underestimate the effect of Western sanctions on smaller countries.

        • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
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          4 months ago

          us sanctions because ISRAEl does not like them, theres no other reason, the NUkes were just an excuse.

      • Whitebrow@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Protip; first time you use an acronym, parse it, and then you can continue referring to it with the abbreviation.

        ROFL (rolling on the floor laughing) as an example could be used to denote something that was, to the receiver, funnier than LOL (laughing out loud)

  • bitwolf@sh.itjust.works
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    My first grade teacher swore WW3 would be over clean water.

    Hes been proven more and more right as time goes on.

    • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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      Man I thought the assassination of MLK Jr was a heavy topic for first grade when my kid came home talking all about it. You got him beat by a mile.

    • Psythik@lemmy.world
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      That’s a pretty heavy topic for a first grade teacher. Meanwhile I wasn’t taught about WWII until freshman year of high school.

      • MisterOwl@lemmy.world
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        GenX has had WW3 hanging over our heads since we could walk. There was a brief respite during the 90s, but that’s over now.

        • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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          As a millennial, born too late for duck-and-cover…born too early for shelter-in-place.

        • sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz
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          I was talking to someone the other day about the freedom that was felt in the music and movies of the time due, in my opinion, to the constantly hovering cold war end-of-the-world.

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      I came to the comments hoping that someone had acknowledged that lack of water has consistently led to war.

  • nullptr@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    What ya mean “no water”? Are they all relying on bottled water, like the whole country? Cant watch youtube

    • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
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      4 months ago

      From what I’ve heard, the current government tapped the groundwater table to push farming. Now, there isn’t enough groundwater to accommodate the difference between water demand and river water.

      It sucks for Iran.

      • Vupware@lemmy.zip
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        4 months ago

        Meanwhile, the rest of the world will completely disregard this cautionary tale and continue to extract groundwater to farm until only saltwater remains.

        Then, as billions of people are dying of starvation, thirst, and societal downfall, the elite will finally prioritize desalination R&D and if/when they get something to work they will hail it as a revolutionary step for humanity and completely disregard the fact that this R&D / subsequent proliferation could have been initiated decades ago when the problem was first apparent.

        Voila, no more overpopulation crisis, and water, what the civilized world once considered a human right, is now used as a method for exerting control, as it is only ever potable (sans rainwater) after being processed.

        • BanMe@lemmy.world
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          Parts of the US, like all the major cities in Texas, are actively sinking because we’re draining the aquifers that took millennia to fill. It’s yet another problem just festering, fascinating to watch as the reality approaches.

            • sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz
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              Maybe not suppose to exist in their current size (the same could be said for a lot of large cities), but humans have lived in both for thousands of years.

      • nullptr@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Lol oh look, people in power are myopic and prioritize short term benefice over long term thonking; I wonder how often that happens!

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          people in power are myopic and prioritize short term benefice over long term thonking

          I’m not sure “maintaining adequate levels of domestic crop yield” is a short-term benefit. They’re stretched for water because they’re in a historic drought during a climate catastrophe. This is a no-win situation, exacerbated by the constant threat of military invasion by nuclear superpowers and their rabid fascist local proxies.

          The Iranian government can’t summon rain from the heavens any easier than their Saudi or Qatari neighbors. Those states just have the benefit of access to western markets and engineering firms for enormous desalination plants. Meanwhile, Iranians’ energy infrastructure - necessary to run the pumps and pipelines that irrigate much of the country - have been subject to repeated bombardment by Israeli and US aircraft. Most notably, their civilian nuclear program was crippled by Trump’s B-2 bombing run in June. But this is just the tail end of the damage inflicted by the eleven day shootout with Israel.

          • AA5B@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            And yet other articles were blaming corruption and cronyism for not adequately limiting water used for agriculture

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              Western Press do be like that. The Saudi government is experiencing the same water crisis, but somehow remains beyond repute.

          • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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            4 months ago

            The B-2 hit their uranium enrichment, not their one civilian nuclear power plant. Iran buys uranium from Russia already enriched to the ~5% level needed to run that power plant. The Iranian program to enrich uranium above that level is entirely a weapons program, since they have no need for uranium enrichment to run their power plant.

            Perhaps instead of investing less resources in a nuclear weapons program and more into projects to benefit their population, Iran wouldn’t be in such a mess.

            This is a no-win situation, exacerbated by the constant threat of military invasion by nuclear superpowers and their rabid fascist local proxies.

            Nobody wants to invade Iran, just the countries that their calls for death to don’t want them to have nuclear weapons for obvious reasons. When you chant “Death to America! Death to Israel” constantly while funding a bunch of terrorist groups, plotting assassinations, and enriching uranium for nuclear weapons they probably shouldn’t be too surprised about the outcome of those actions.

            Most Iranians are good people, but the ruling regime are some of the worst people in the world and prioritize being adversarial assholes over running their country properly. They’re losers and I hope they get overthrown by the Iranian people.

          • nullptr@lemmy.world
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            Fair enough i was a little harsh; but I hughly doubt their uranium is civilian

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              4 months ago

              I hughly doubt their uranium is civilian

              It is at least as civilian as any French nuclear plant. To date, there is no evidence of plutonium enrichment or bomb construction, which is more than can be said of their Israeli neighbors.

        • titanicx@lemmy.zip
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          4 months ago

          Yeah they’ve talked about how Iran has been in a drought for quite a while. It’s like utah, we’ve been in a drought for 20 plus years at this point we had one good water year last year and for the first time in quite a while came out of our drought status and everybody just kind of forgot and then all of a sudden by the end of the summer most the state was back in a drug in severe drought status again I can’t wait for all of our idiotic agriculture here to dry up the water table just like it has over there.

  • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    I feel for the innocent civilians who did not ask for or deserve this.

    But I feel nothing for the ones who stood beside the brutal regime and made more enemies than competent allies.

      • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
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        4 months ago

        no, that happened because these rick people decided to build in a high risk fire area, very little to do with the water situation.

        • TangledHyphae@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          During the Palisades Fire in January 2025, firefighters experienced significant water pressure problems and some hydrants ran dry, hampering firefighting efforts in higher elevation areas. This was due to unprecedented demand overwhelming the local water system, which is designed for typical urban structure fires, not large-scale wildfires.

          Key Details on the Water Issues

          System Overload: The demand for water to fight the fire was four times the normal use for 15 straight hours, which lowered the water pressure. The local system, designed for individual house fires, could not handle a firestorm affecting multiple neighborhoods simultaneously.

          Dry Tanks: The three water storage tanks that supply the Palisades area from higher elevations were depleted and could not be refilled fast enough due to the high consumption rate at lower elevations.

          Empty Reservoir: The nearby 117-million-gallon Santa Ynez Reservoir, a potential lifeline, was empty at the time for a necessary repair of a tear in its protective cover, as required by public health regulations.

          Are you sure it had little to do with the water?

          • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
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            4 months ago

            most of it was the fault of the rich people building in such a high risk area, knowing that there is a potential for that to happen.

    • smol_beans@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      If they didn’t have nukes the USA would’ve “liberated” them and turned them into iraq by now

      • TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip
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        4 months ago

        Well they don’t have nukes and they didn’t get “liberated”, but maybe they should have been, there would be less civilian graves in Ukraine killed by Shaheed Drones.

        • smol_beans@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          they didn’t get “liberated”, but maybe they should have been

          Are you in the CIA?

    • foenix@lemmy.radio
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      4 months ago

      Understand that desalination is extremely energy intensive and takes a massive initial investment… Years ago.

      • Digit@lemmy.wtf
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        4 months ago

        Yeah, you’re right. Better just to use geoengineering stuff, like cloud seeding aerosol injection and such, to bring about a deluge. :3 Tada!

  • Worstdriver@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    And so, you become like them. Rigid, unyielding, and unable to see any viewpoint but your own. I feel pity for the future you and am glad I will not live to see it

  • Pyr@lemmy.ca
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    4 months ago

    Their God will save them any time now. All those years of oppressing women will surely pay off.

  • krooklochurm@lemmy.ca
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    4 months ago

    No need to worry tbh.

    Your magical fairy man in the sky will magic you up some water any second now because you’ve chosen to base your entire country around your special relationship with him, which he wants because he’s real, so you’re good.